Original Sin

[godnotgod]

It just means the whole thing is fishy. If someone from Nigeria emailed you that they needed to put their money in your bank account and you would get $500,000, but you first needed to pay a $150 fee, you would be suspicious. I view Hebrew mythology in the way. Sure, maybe that person emailing me is telling the truth, but most likely it is a fraud. Same with Zeus and his thunderbolts, Volcano Gods, Thor and his hammer, talking snakes in the Garden of Eden, etc.

Maybe God does exist, it really depends on the God. If the God is connected to some mythology, then I am very very sceptical. If this God is just some general creator, then he is just some concept with no evidence.

[youtube]fDp7pkEcJVQ[/youtube]
Kissing Hank's *** - YouTube

 

[Dan4reason]

Nigeria and god? other than that , I could not agree with you more.

Cool. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[fishy]

Cool. Thanks for the discussion.

Like your sig.........

 

[riley2112]

godnotgod. That clip was great. It gave me a laugh to start off the day. thanks again. Got to go for now I am late for church. Hank is waiting.lol

 

[godnotgod]

godnotgod. That clip was great. It gave me a laugh to start off the day. thanks again. Got to go for now I am late for church. Hank is waiting.lol

Yeah, sure...just don't get smart and try to leave town without first 'you-know-what', LOL

 

[Prophet]

It is written in the Law concerning this, when God gave a command to Adam, "From every tree you may eat, but from the tree which is in the midst of Paradise do not eat, for on the day that you eat from it, you will surely die." But the serpent was wiser than all the animals that were in Paradise, and he persuaded Eve, saying, "On the day when you eat from the tree which is in the midst of Paradise, the eyes of your mind will be opened." And Eve obeyed, and she stretched forth her hand; she took from the tree and ate; she also gave to her husband with her. And immediately they knew that they were naked, and they took some fig-leaves (and) put them on as girdles.

But God came at the time of evening, walking in the midst of Paradise. When Adam saw him, he hid himself. And he said, "Adam, where are you?" He answered (and) said, "I have come under the fig tree." And at that very moment, God knew that he had eaten from the tree of which he had commanded him, "Do not eat of it." And he said to him, "Who is it who has instructed you?" And Adam answered, "The woman whom you have given me." And the woman said, "It is the serpent who instructed me." And he (God) cursed the serpent, and called him "devil." And he said, "Behold, Adam has become like one of us, knowing evil and good." Then he said, "Let us cast him out of paradise, lest he take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever."

But what sort is this God? First he maliciously refused Adam from eating of the tree of knowledge, and, secondly, he said "Adam, where are you?" God does not have foreknowledge? Would he not know from the beginning? And afterwards, he said, "Let us cast him out of this place, lest he eat of the tree of life and live forever." Surely, he has shown himself to be a malicious grudger! And what kind of God is this? For great is the blindness of those who read, and they did not know him. And he said, "I am the jealous God; I will bring the sins of the fathers upon the children until three (and) four generations." And he said, "I will make their heart thick, and I will cause their mind to become blind, that they might not know nor comprehend the things that are said." But these things he has said to those who believe in him and serve him!

A commentary on original sin from the Testimony of Truth, recovered in the Nag Hammadi library

 

[waitasec]

A commentary on original sin from the Testimony of Truth, recovered in the Nag Hammadi library

it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
surely one can know about things-cause and effect-without the knowledge of good and evil...
"here is my puppy...i will call him spot" this requires no knowledge of good and evil...
what the narrative says is god wanted man to live with out the awareness of the moral consequences of mans actions.

 

[Prophet]

it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
surely one can know about things-cause and effect-without the knowledge of good and evil...
"here is my puppy...i will call him spot" this requires no knowledge of good and evil...
what the narrative says is god wanted man to live with out the awareness of the moral consequences of mans actions.

Yes the narrative certainly says that, and towards this belief, the commentator on the canonized Adam and Eve story says:

But what sort is this God? First he maliciously refused Adam from eating of the tree of knowledge, and, secondly, he said "Adam, where are you?" God does not have foreknowledge? Would he not know from the beginning? And afterwards, he said, "Let us cast him out of this place, lest he eat of the tree of life and live forever." Surely, he has shown himself to be a malicious grudger! And what kind of God is this?

I ask you the same question. What kind of God demands morality from us and yet actively hides knowledge of it from us?

 

[waitasec]

Yes the narrative certainly says that, and towards this belief, the commentator on the canonized Adam and Eve story says:

But what sort is this God? First he maliciously refused Adam from eating of the tree of knowledge, and, secondly, he said "Adam, where are you?" God does not have foreknowledge? Would he not know from the beginning? And afterwards, he said, "Let us cast him out of this place, lest he eat of the tree of life and live forever." Surely, he has shown himself to be a malicious grudger! And what kind of God is this?

I ask you the same question. What kind of God demands morality from us and yet actively hides knowledge of it from us?

a man made god...
man isn't perfect...


however if a woman created god....:flirt:

 

[Thief]

it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
surely one can know about things-cause and effect-without the knowledge of good and evil...
"here is my puppy...i will call him spot" this requires no knowledge of good and evil...
what the narrative says is god wanted man to live with out the awareness of the moral consequences of mans actions.

That's not true.
That condition would be unstable and dangerous.
At least with knowing good and evil, some reservation would be there.

Even with 'knowing' Man is a creature that can set his 'knowing' aside.
When we do, are we not regarded as animals?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

And you've noticed...I don't read it like most people do.

You answered as if it was a science/medical procedure. (i.e. cloning) which is why I asked the question.

It's an important question considering you assert Adam and Eve were actual people even though most scholars and theologians maintain the story is allegory. If the story is allegory then no physical act of "sin" was committed. If they were real people then there are more questions surrounding the credibility of their existence then there are answers.

 

[Thief]

You answered as if it was a science/medical procedure. (i.e. cloning) which is why I asked the question.

It's an important question considering you assert Adam and Eve were actual people even though most scholars and theologians maintain the story is allegory. If the story is allegory then no physical act of "sin" was committed. If they were real people then there are more questions surrounding the credibility of their existence then there are answers.

I assert they lived...as the first to have walked with God.
Must be true.
If not, then who was first?
If no ever has walked with God, then all religion and faith is doubtful.

But I happen to believe in God.....and someone had to be first.

But I don't buy the original sin dogma.
The acquisition of knowledge was needful.
It is that acquisition that makes the last hour...survivable.
That the garden was lost, is not a punishment.
The garden served it's purpose, like a petri dish in an experiment.

The specimens were then released.

 

[waitasec]

I assert they lived...as the first to have walked with God.
Must be true.
If not, then who was first?
If no ever has walked with God, then all religion and faith is doubtful.

But I happen to believe in God.....and someone had to be first.

But I don't buy the original sin dogma.
The acquisition of knowledge was needful.
It is that acquisition that makes the last hour...survivable.
That the garden was lost, is not a punishment.
The garden served it's purpose, like a petri dish in an experiment.

The specimens were then released.

this is an interesting take.

is deism out of the question?

 

[Prophet]

That's not true.
That condition would be unstable and dangerous.
At least with knowing good and evil, some reservation would be there.

Even with 'knowing' Man is a creature that can set his 'knowing' aside.
When we do, are we not regarded as animals?

I think we agree that the position of ignorance is unstable and dangerous and is taught by blind beings in power whose power is rooted in the ignorance of those he rules. Everywhere in the world where ignorance is the greatest, you will find wicked rulers furthering their own power and wealth by proliferation of ignorance.

This is why the Bible teaches of a god who forbids his people to acquire Knowledge of Good and Evil (or, as it is referred to in gnostic texts, gnosis), while the gnostic version of the Adam and Eve story features the wicked rulers of the world as the beings attempting to keep man in ignorance of Good and Evil, not God.

 

[ankarali]

Original sin does not exist in Islam, all people are born sinless and they are until their 15th anniversary. The sin begin after 15th age. If you are dead before the age of 15 you go directly to heaven and will live their in your dead age.

 

[Prophet]

Original sin does not exist in Islam, all people are born sinless and they are until their 15th anniversary. The sin begin after 15th age. If you are dead before the age of 15 you go directly to heaven and will live their in your dead age.

Were someone to tell me this, I would assume this being had little to teach me of morality.

 

[Thief]

this is an interesting take.

is deism out of the question?

If I knew a good definition for deism....

 

[waitasec]

If I knew a good definition for deism....

a religious philosophy which holds that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is the product of an all-powerful creator. According to deists, the creator rarely, if ever, either intervenes in human affairs or suspends the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending instead to assert that a god (or "the Supreme Architect") does not alter the universe by intervening in it.

Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Prophet]

I classify myself as deist. I classify Jesus as deist as well.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

 

[waitasec]

I classify myself as deist. I classify Jesus as deist as well.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

i'm not so sure a deist would say that...a humanist perhaps....