Other god beliefs besides the common one

[TheKnight]

Does anyone here have a really unusual view about the divine? I mean one besides the Christian view, which in the US is the mainstream one. I will start. I believe in gods and goddesses, but not in creators or omni (insert attribute here) deities. They are beings on a higher level of existence and are bound by actions, emotions, etc. I think there may be a cosmic force/energy that is behind everything, but am not really sure it's a god. I don't think it's personal. I don't mind calling it Brahman, or simply "the Force" will do.

I look forward to some interesting insights

I believe that God is existence. But more than that, He is the very idea of "to be".

As a Rabbi, whose teachings I admire, once said:

If you can define it, it is not G‑d.
If there could be more than one, it is not G‑d.
If it could be denied, it is not G‑d. If it can be proven, it is not G‑d.
If there could be anything else, it is not G‑d. If it will not allow anything else to be, it is not G‑d....Why can't we say what G‑d is? Because G‑d is not an is. Rather, is is G‑d.....
Can is be defined?
Can there be more than one is?
Who is the fool that can deny is? Who is the fool that needs to prove it?
There is nothing else but is—all else is but a fiction of the isness. Is will allow for infinite iterations of is, yet the Is itself never changes.

 

[Madhuri]

Actually sadism, in and of itself, is not evil. At least I don't see it as such. A sadist can love and be merciful and be just.(They are also slightly narcisitic) But only when they choose. Not when I choose. G-d is not all loving or all merciful. He just is G-d.

Bad things happen to good and bad people. It just happens. There is no devil to do it to you. It is all G-d. His justice, his will. Sure I resent it sometimes and wonder, when bad things continue to happen, when it will end. And trust me, this last year has been hell for me and my family. But I do not feel trapped. Nor do I blame him, entirely for my downfalls. Most of it falls on my sholders. He could just be telling me, "this is the consequence of you actions. You need to change"

I have come to terms with the being I call G-d. I understand it is his will to modivate me to be stronger. And I have never asked, "Why me?" I had always said, "Why not me?"

I don't mean to badger, but I just can't quite grasp your thinking here.

How is sadism not evil? Sadism is when you derive pleasure from the suffering of others. How is that not evil, in and of itself?

Humans are not all-loving either, but only some of us are sadistic, and those people are considered to be very sick in the mind.

So what you are saying is that you are ok with worshipping a God that actually enjoys it when you suffer? And yet you do not feel trapped? You do not feel enslaved?

If you disagree with what I have written, then perhaps 'sadist' isn't the right term. Maybe juvenile? Immature? Grumpy and selfish? Ignorant? emotionally unbalanced or just lacking control of emotions in general? Psychopathic? Narcissistic for sure.

And what do you make of the idea that selfless humans can exist, though created by such an incredibly selfish Being? How is that possible?

 

[Breathe]

Madhuri, you've made me ponder a few things. It's made me wonder, how can some people worship an evil God? In this case I'm not talking about a religion in particular, but the viewpoint maltheism. I have no idea how people can hold a view that God is evil--unless they see their position as to fight that God. I have no idea how one can worship a God whom they think is evil.

That's one for the OP, another view of God, despite the common one.

ANother one that is rarely known is actually close to the post of Sunstone's: emanationism. Cao Daists believe that in the beginning was only the Tao, and then came the Big Bang, out of which God the Father was born. He shed part of himself to reside over the Feminine, the Goddess Mother Buddha (who is a male ).

Then we have some rarer ones such as panendeism, and polypanendeism.

 

[Onkara]

Hi
My impression is that is is slightly different. People worship a God which can be evil, rather than an evil God. The difference as I see it is that God can punish and be "evil" but not necessarily. The worshipper simply hands over that decision to God, almost submissively and as Rakhel says: "There is no devil to do it to you. It is all G-d. His justice, his will."

 

[Rakhel]

I don't mean to badger, but I just can't quite grasp your thinking here.

How is sadism not evil? Sadism is when you derive pleasure from the suffering of others. How is that not evil, in and of itself?

Humans are not all-loving either, but only some of us are sadistic, and those people are considered to be very sick in the mind.

So what you are saying is that you are ok with worshipping a God that actually enjoys it when you suffer? And yet you do not feel trapped? You do not feel enslaved?

If you disagree with what I have written, then perhaps 'sadist' isn't the right term. Maybe juvenile? Immature? Grumpy and selfish? Ignorant? emotionally unbalanced or just lacking control of emotions in general? Psychopathic? Narcissistic for sure.

And what do you make of the idea that selfless humans can exist, though created by such an incredibly selfish Being? How is that possible?

Maybe sadism isn't the right word, but it is a word that makes people stop and think, and it is the only way I know how to explain what I see in my G-d.

As I said, sadism, in and of itself, is not evil. It is the depth of the sadism that determines the level of sanity of the sadist. Or perhaps the other way around. The level of sanity determines the depth of the sadism.

Further, I get tired of the typical human aspects label onto G-d. you know which ones. Angry, jealous, cruel, loving, kind, merciful. If you look at these human aspects, they pretty much scream "sadist." He is loving, kind, merciful, yet, at the same time angry, jealous, cruel.

I view G-d no differently than other Jews, I just express what I view differently.

As for the selfless people. No one is totally selfless. Everyone is selfish to some extent.

 

[Madhuri]

Maybe sadism isn't the right word, but it is a word that makes people stop and think, and it is the only way I know how to explain what I see in my G-d.

As I said, sadism, in and of itself, is not evil. It is the depth of the sadism that determines the level of sanity of the sadist. Or perhaps the other way around. The level of sanity determines the depth of the sadism.

Further, I get tired of the typical human aspects label onto G-d. you know which ones. Angry, jealous, cruel, loving, kind, merciful. If you look at these human aspects, they pretty much scream "sadist." He is loving, kind, merciful, yet, at the same time angry, jealous, cruel.

I view G-d no differently than other Jews, I just express what I view differently.

As for the selfless people. No one is totally selfless. Everyone is selfish to some extent.

Are you aware that sadism is classified as a personality disorder?
If God is sadistic, then it means the things he does is specifically for the purpose of inflicting suffering. This is not the same as someone who is deeply angered or hurt and takes revenge. This is like someone who tortures a little kid because it's fun.
That's sadism.
Sadism is as evil as it gets. If you disagree, then I guess we must define evil differently.

 

[Rakhel]

Sadism is not just someone who hurts little kids just for the fun of it. That is the more sever extreme of the word. Just as there are different levels of kindness and love, there are different levels of sadism

 

[Madhuri]

Sadism is not just someone who hurts little kids just for the fun of it. That is the more sever extreme of the word. Just as there are different levels of kindness and love, there are different levels of sadism

Like what? What would represent just a little bit of sadism?

 

[Rakhel]

This is probably the wrong section of the forum for me to go into that. Most definitely the wrong thread.

 

[Breathe]

Like what? What would represent just a little bit of sadism?

Bullying, I think.




I don't think that sadism is the correct term for the concept you're after, rakhel. May I suggest a term like "harsh" instead? Does that help?

 

[Madhuri]

This is probably the wrong section of the forum for me to go into that. Most definitely the wrong thread.

I don't think it's the wrong thread. It's still on topic.

 

[Rakhel]

Harsh doesn't fit either and neither dies bullying. You are looking at it from the most extreme.

Have you ever known a person that kills insects, yet keeps them as pets? Or keeps pets yet works in an animal shelter that euthanize animals? A doctor or a parent could be considered sadistic on even the most minute levels.

Like most things, life is not black and white. I see shades of gray.

 

[Breathe]

Harsh doesn't fit either and neither dies bullying. You are looking at it from the most extreme.

I disagree; I see bullying as a minor form of sadism, considering sadism is defined as "the enjoyment of inflicting suffering upon another".

Have you ever known a person that kills insects, yet keeps them as pets?

That would still make the person cruel.

Or keeps pets yet works in an animal shelter that euthanize animals?

I wouldn't see that as cruel, sadistic or harsh, just a necessary evil. Some animals need to be put down due to health, for example. I doubt the person takes any enjoyment out of them dying either.

A doctor or a parent could be considered sadistic on even the most minute levels.

I disagree: generally speaking, a doctor doesn't enjoy seeing his patients suffer, neither does a parent enjoy having to punish the child. If they did, that would be minor sadism.

I see life in grey, too. I don't believe in "evil", or "sin".

 

[Rakhel]

I disagree; I see bullying as a minor form of sadism, considering sadism is defined as "the enjoyment of inflicting suffering upon another".

Bullying doesn't fit what I see in G-d. It maybe what someone else sees in him but not what I see.

That would still make the person cruel.


I wouldn't see that as cruel, sadistic or harsh, just a necessary evil. Some animals need to be put down due to health, for example. I doubt the person takes any enjoyment out of them dying either.

And there is a difference?

I disagree: generally speaking, a doctor doesn't enjoy seeing his patients suffer, neither does a parent enjoy having to punish the child. If they did, that would be minor sadism.

My point exactly.

 

[Breathe]

Bullying doesn't fit what I see in G-d. It maybe what someone else sees in him but not what I see.

Exactly, I don't see that in God either, which is why I think sadism doesn't fit your intended meaning.

And there is a difference?

Yeah: one enjoys, one doesn't.

The one who enjoys is sadistic. The one who doesn't is just doing what needs to be done.

 

[Rakhel]

Exactly, I don't see that in God either, which is why I think sadism doesn't fit your intended meaning.

It is what I see, though I am open to what one would call someone is is loving and jealous, kind yet cruel, merciful and still punishing, all at the same time.

Yeah: one enjoys, one doesn't.

The one who enjoys is sadistic. The one who doesn't is just doing what needs to be done.

You would be surprised.

 

[Breathe]

It is what I see, though I am open to what one would call someone is is loving and jealous, kind yet cruel, merciful and still punishing, all at the same time.

Tactical? Strict?

I don't think there is a word that will go with it, to be honest: I don't think it can be expllained in one simple world, sadly, but I feel the term 'sadistic' gives a wrong impression and leads to confusion, as is observable here.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I agree with Rakhel that this god could be totally sadistic and evil, and still recieve worship. He is a god, and it's the choice of his devotees to follow him.

 

[Rakhel]

Right. Some people choose to worship Satan(which is totally off the wall for me) and those that don't see him as the purest evil known to man.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

See I don't imagine that a god has to be some perfect being like Christians envision, who when you examine him, really isn't so perfect after all. In what way isn't the Christian god a humanistic god? They say he loves everyone, but would such a transcendent god even know an emotion like love? They say he will cast those who don't worship him into an eternal hell, which means he isn't a good god.

I can totally imagine a god like Rakhel's actually existing.