• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Other god beliefs besides the common one

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
My G-d(I hate saying that because I don't own him) is neither good nor bad, he just is.

We attribute what we see into what we call a god. Love, mercy, kindness, knowledge, power. Then the other end of the spectrum, we have anger, hate, jealousy, cruelty, maybe even favoritism. God is what we want him to be when we want him to be it.

I mean, really, only a good god will let everyone in heaven, but he will not let those that don't believe in him enter? Isn't that a contradiction?
Only a cruel god would allow some kids to have cancer, but what about the ones that don't have cancer? Is he cruel to them?
This is what doesn't make sense to me.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Harsh doesn't fit either and neither dies bullying. You are looking at it from the most extreme.

Have you ever known a person that kills insects, yet keeps them as pets? Or keeps pets yet works in an animal shelter that euthanize animals? A doctor or a parent could be considered sadistic on even the most minute levels.

Like most things, life is not black and white. I see shades of gray.

None of the above is sadism.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Right. Some people choose to worship Satan(which is totally off the wall for me) and those that don't see him as the purest evil known to man.

A lot of Satanists, from what I can gather, choose to worship Satan because they actually see him as representing good, while God is seen as an evil tyrant.
It's different when people choose to worship something that they believe is evil- they often like the idea of being evil themselves.
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
None of the above is sadism.
But they can be. It depends on the level of sanity of the person.
You are either refusing to see that an action can be sadistic or are choosing to believe that all actions are either good or bad. This is not the world I live in.

About 18 years ago, I was "in love" with someone who would beat me. He made me feel berated and disgusted with myself.He was cruel and there are things he did, things I allowed him to do that I will never forgive myself for. I came to my senses and left him.

About 6 years ago, I met my current husband. We don't do things are would be classified as normal by normal standards. We get a little kinky. But some of the stuff he does, things I allow him to do to me, that some would consider sadistic.

Both guys can be classified as sadistic, however, the difference between the two is the level of sanity. The first guy didn't care who he hurt even if it included himself, his family or his friends. He is the typical sadist you see on the news. The one that has been to jail. The one that gets off on power. the one that loves hurting kids.

The second guy, is the one that will tie you up, spank you, ask if you want more, then run to rock a crying baby back to sleep, all the while saying, "Daddy's got you."

The second one is the one I see in G-d. No I am not saying my husband is G-d, but when I view sadism I do base it on what I have seen and experienced of sadism itself.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
But they can be. It depends on the level of sanity of the person.
You are either refusing to see that an action can be sadistic or are choosing to believe that all actions are either good or bad. This is not the world I live in.

About 18 years ago, I was "in love" with someone who would beat me. He made me feel berated and disgusted with myself.He was cruel and there are things he did, things I allowed him to do that I will never forgive myself for. I came to my senses and left him.

About 6 years ago, I met my current husband. We don't do things are would be classified as normal by normal standards. We get a little kinky. But some of the stuff he does, things I allow him to do to me, that some would consider sadistic.

Both guys can be classified as sadistic, however, the difference between the two is the level of sanity. The first guy didn't care who he hurt even if it included himself, his family or his friends. He is the typical sadist you see on the news. The one that has been to jail. The one that gets off on power. the one that loves hurting kids.

The second guy, is the one that will tie you up, spank you, ask if you want more, then run to rock a crying baby back to sleep, all the while saying, "Daddy's got you."

The second one is the one I see in G-d. No I am not saying my husband is G-d, but when I view sadism I do base it on what I have seen and experienced of sadism itself.

Sadism is only when you derive pleasure from the suffering of another! The second guy you are describing is giving you pleasure within your kinky play, not actually wanting to make you suffer. It's completely different, not sadism.

This is my whole point in arguing with you. I think you have a wrong definition of sadism. Sadism is enjoying the pain and suffering in another. It is cruelty alone.

In saying that, what makes you classify God is the sanity category?
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
Sadism is only when you derive pleasure from the suffering of another! The second guy you are describing is giving you pleasure within your kinky play, not actually wanting to make you suffer. It's completely different, not sadism.

This is my whole point in arguing with you. I think you have a wrong definition of sadism. Sadism is enjoying the pain and suffering in another. It is cruelty alone.
Are you suggesting that he isn't enjoying himself when he gives it? That I am more or less using him? that is an interesting thought.

In saying that, what makes you classify God is the sanity category?
I believe I already answered this.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
A god or God? There's a difference, you know.

Both. I don't think Jehovah fits into what I'd call God, capital g, if I even would call that a god.

I do not even call my own gods the same as that. That is the primal origin from which they were born. They are the same as Jehovah in that they are "god-beings". They have some kind of body and have attributes and all that.
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
See, Madhuri, I don't understand why my understanding of G-d has to fit into your classification. The OP is difference concepts outside the common one. My perception of G-d is not common, I am well aware of this. but it is how I make sense of it. Where is that wrong? Because I don't see things the way you do?
Sorry, but I would rather not look at the world as either this or that.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Are you suggesting that he isn't enjoying himself when he gives it? That I am more or less using him? that is an interesting thought.

Erm, are you being tormented in these situations? Are you suffering? Wishing that it were not happening to you? Are you a true victim of abuse? It doesn't sound like it. Not sadism.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
See, Madhuri, I don't understand why my understanding of G-d has to fit into your classification. The OP is difference concepts outside the common one. My perception of G-d is not common, I am well aware of this. but it is how I make sense of it. Where is that wrong? Because I don't see things the way you do?
Sorry, but I would rather not look at the world as either this or that.

You don't have to see things the way I do.
I am just struggling to understand your view. And this is under Debates, so I'm happy to debate your view.
I am truly struggling to understand how you think your God is sadistic and what that means to you. You used examples from your own personal life. What if you provide me with examples of how you think God is sadistic and why this is not evil?
And why are God's actions sadistic, as opposed to something like childish or ignorant?
 

blackout

Violet.
My Panthiestic leanings
would have me say that gOd is also sadistic.

(ie...if sadism exists, it is a part, or manifestation, of gOd)
 
Last edited:

Onkara

Well-Known Member
I found it interesting that many commentaries of scriptures said that one one knows "God/Self", God cannot harm you, in fact God serves you as he would a loved one, you become immune to sadism and sorrow.
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
The G-d I respect is sadistic and I am happy with this description. and I am done trying to explain.
 

EverChanging

Well-Known Member
This is an interesting thread. I see parts of my views in every post so far.

Ultimately, for me, God is That. Or It. Other. God is everything, and yet even this limits God, so God is also Nothing. I can describe God in words, art, poetry, ritual, whatever, and yet all of these things merely point to That: they do not define It.

For a very long time, I cast off Christianity as completely as I could -- I never managed to exterminate it altogether -- because as a child I had been indoctrinated into a Christian-based cult where I went through much trauma, but as I have healed, I have come to embrace my Christian roots again, though not quite in the same way, for the spiritual practice I have now is grounded in Christian mythology, but it also transcends the limits of any one religion. Thus, I can see truth in everything that has been said thus far.

I do not view the divine as personal or anthropomorphic, but I often experience it that way because I have an ego. So, on the one hand God is everything that is. Isness itself. The ground of all being, and even you and me.

And yet I also experience it from a limited perspective. For instance, a group of beings appeared to me at age 15 in response to an extremely sarcastic prayer that I didn't think would be answered. I wouldn't say these beings were God in its entirety, yet they are divine in that they are a reflection of God. They were full of love. I could see myself through their eyes and how beautiful I was to them even though I had been demonized for being gay. I saw that all love is beautiful, even love between persons of the same sex. Even these beings were rather impersonal, as they were many, yet one, and I could not sense individual characteristics.

Since then, other beings have come to me in more personal forms. They also came to me at a very bad time in my life when I was dangerously depressed, and they have been with me since then, guiding me. There are four of them, they all have certain forms, voices, and names. They have peculiar characteristics. I always know who they are, unlike the first group.

I do not worship these beings, as they seem more like companions and friends to me. They never judge or command, unlike other voices I heard when mentally ill. They are also much more defined.

However, these beings, too, are a reflection of God -- they are a reflection of all that is. They are even a reflection of myself, and thus they are divine. I believe them to be archetypal, as one of them appeared to a friend of mine, also totally unexpected, in a hard time in her life, and I've since found out that a friend of mine has a mother who has a friend with the same appearance as one of mine and even the same name. I do not believe in spirits, and I tend to think of archetypes as emerging from similar brains and nervous systems from common human experiences, so I don't think this is supernatural, nor do I necessarily think there is life after death. But that is only my personal view, and it isn't really important. They are not there to govern beliefs.

So yes, God is impersonal, yet we can experience it in a very personal way. I tend to think of God the Father/Mother as the impersonal absolute, God the Son/Daughter as the impersonal absolute manifested as matter, the entire universe, and God the Holy Spirit (or Christa Sophia) as that aspect of God that we experience as coming from within. Thus, I am a pantheist of sorts, but my experience of the divine blurs the distinctions between panentheism and pantheism.

God has been described on these forums as sadistic. I accept that this is a perfectly legitimate experience of the divine, but like any experience, it is limited. God can be experienced from the perspective of a particular person or ego as cruel, judgmental, and sadistic. (Rakhel, I know you don't actually mean all of those things by sadistic. I am just making a point.) But God can also be experienced as compassion and healing love. And this, too, is limited. I do tend to think of God the Entirety as Love itself in an impersonal sense. (But this is different from a god being loving.) God is Love in that God the Entirety embraces all and holds all in Itself forever, whether or not one knows it, and we are all saved.

All love, all suffering, all good, all evil, all these things are a part of the Whole that is God, but they are all limited perspectives. God is beyond them all, and that is why evil can be a part of God while God is not evil. Good and evil come from limited perspectives. God is the Whole.

The closest I believe I've been to God as the Whole came in meditation one day. For a part of that meditation, I completely disappeared. There was no me. There was no anything. But there was not nothing, either, for nothing is not a thing, and yet that is the best I know how to describe it, so I sometimes describe God as Nothing. This is not unheard of, I now know, among mystics of the three major Abrahamic faiths, and probably other faiths, too. It is quite similar to the Buddha's Nirvana.

Ultimately, I do not believe that God is something that has a self, though I regularly experience four distinct beings who guide me, and I am devoted to the Trinity -- the Trinity is good for me because it is a whole that transcends one personality -- and especially the Blessed Virgin Mary among the saints, who for me embodies that of God which can be described as Mother.

I also believe that our own selves are illusions for various reasons, philosophical, personal, and especially scientific. This ties in very well with my spirituality. When self disappears, only God remains. A person who regularly practices letting go of the self will become more compassionate, as there is no self to be defensive in behalf of, and every one else becomes a part of this "self" and thus deserving of compassion and love.

None of this requires that I accept the supernatural or another non-material plane, an afterlife, or some god "out there" that the atheists wisely reject, for this is all an expression of how I experience the world from a personal perspective. All of those experiences merely point to the Beyond. They are not the Beyond itself. They are illusions, meaning not that they are not real, but that they are not what they appear to be.

God is All, and All is God; God is Everything, and God is Nothing. Paradoxical language is the best way I can capture it in words. There is no satisfactory way to explain the dissolution of the self.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
The G-d I respect is sadistic and I am happy with this description. and I am done trying to explain.

But then you go telling other people this and they will assume that you worship a character that is sick and twisted.
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
I am done explaining here. You don't seem to like my explanation and want me to redefine my explanation to suit you. I am sorry but I am done.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
I am done explaining here. You don't seem to like my explanation and want me to redefine my explanation to suit you. I am sorry but I am done.

That's fine. I just don't think you did a very good job in explaining. But this is definitely dragging on way too long.
 
Top