Other than belief in god(s)

[Jeremiahcp]

Other than belief in god(s) are there any real differences between theists and atheists?

 

[Sunstone]

In general, not that I've noticed. Human nature runs deeper than religion -- and especially runs deeper than mere religious beliefs -- even though religion is a part of human nature.

 

[Deathbydefault]

No, as theism and atheism only deal with the god dilemma.

 

[allfoak]

Other than belief in god(s) are there any real differences between theists and atheists?

I'm thinking we are all the same inside.

 

[Valerian]

Other than belief in god(s) are there any real differences between theists and atheists?

No. But only if the atheists are right.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

So then belief in god(s) or lack of belief does not shape a person significantly?

 

[Sunstone]

So then belief in god(s) or lack of belief does not shape a person significantly?

I don't think so. Some related beliefs seem to shape people's behavior more than mere belief or disbelief in deity. For instance, a belief that one's god is opposed to homosexuality seems to have more consequences than the simple belief that one's god exists.

In addition to that, all religious beliefs generally tend to be less significant determinants of behavior than, say, one's fundamental personality.

 

[Valerian]

So then belief in god(s) or lack of belief does not shape a person significantly?

Oh, it absolutely does shape a person significantly. But what I meant was, if the atheists are correct all that “shaping” ends up being for nought, eternally --- and in that sense there is no difference.

But if God is real, then everything we do, say or think or everything we do not do or say --- it all is accounted for in some way in the eternal and the consequences will greatly differ.

Note: Just because there are some real scoundrels and hypocrites who are believers does not discredit the godly efforts and sacrifices of so many other believers. Grace is of real value.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

The proof as always, is in the pudding.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Other than belief in god(s) are there any real differences between theists and atheists?

Atheists get wrinkles faster, tend to bald more easily and cannot cook. I'm pretty sure that is the truth. I heard it from a theist.

 

[vijeno]

So then belief in god(s) or lack of belief does not shape a person significantly?

I think there are no differences on that general level.

I'm fairly certain there *are* noticeable differences between your typical run-off-the-mill Hare Krishna, and the average atheist, but that rather likely does not boil down to the beliefs, but rather that they were selected from different groups.

People more often than not get into cults when they're at a bad place in their lives, and atheists statistically tend to be urban, higher income folks, so there will probably be a difference in behaviour and general psychological makeup.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Oh, it absolutely does shape a person significantly. But what I meant was, if the atheists are correct all that “shaping” ends up being for nought, eternally --- and in that sense there is no difference.

But if God is real, then everything we do, say or think or everything we do not do or say --- it all is accounted for in some way in the eternal and the consequences will greatly differ.

Note: Just because there are some real scoundrels and hypocrites who are believers does not discredit the godly efforts and sacrifices of so many other believers. Grace is of real value.

Unless it's a different god than yours that is real. Or gods. Or an absentee god of deists who don't care what you do, or a Spinozan god of which everyone is a part of eternally no matter what they do, or an evil god which punishes good behavior, or a good god for which goidness is defined differently than in your faith etc etc.
#PascalsFalseDillema

 

[ADigitalArtist]

A/theism doesn't tell me anything about their personality or even their values. It's useful for establishing wether the person believes in a god or gods, or not (it doesn't even tell you if a believer worships the god(s) they believe or if the non-believer has another form of worship). For everything else, such as normative ethics, there's other more poignant labels. I'm am atheist. I'm also a materialist, a utilitarian consequentialist, an ENFP (last I checked), a Pacific Northwestern American, a gardener, a digital artist, a clinical massage therapist and PTA.

 

[HonestJoe]

Other than belief in god(s) are there any real differences between theists and atheists?

In general terms no, pretty much by definition. Try looking at it from the opposite direction; Can you name any characteristic, other than relating to belief in gods, that is shared by all theists or all atheists?

 

[Valerian]

For everything else, such as normative ethics, there's other more poignant labels.

That may be a matter of opinion and belief as to what is more poignant.

Also, I agree, of course if a different god than my god is the real one that would change everything including my statement that grace is of real value. But the poster is asking what each of us think if there is any real difference between an atheist and a theist in matters such as personality, how we treat others, daily pursuits, etc. And I basically responded by saying "yes" in a very indirect way.

Yes, because I believe for many or most Christians a belief in Jesus, heaven, purgatory and hell will surely alter one's attitude toward sin. Far less likely to be mean, uncaring, unforgiving, lustful, selfish, greedy, etc. Not in all cases obviously, but in many. Why? Because we fear just punishments in the hereafter.

Also, for some of us Christians, we have faith in many promises of God, but as to whether our god is God, it is certain (for me). It is not a matter of faith.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

That may be a matter of opinion and belief as to what is more poignant.

Also, I agree, of course if a different god than my god is the real one that would change everything including my statement that grace is of real value. But the poster is asking what each of us think if there is any real difference between an atheist and a theist in matters such as personality, how we treat others, daily pursuits, etc. And I basically responded by saying "yes" in a very indirect way.

Yes, because I believe for many or most Christians a belief in Jesus, heaven, purgatory and hell will surely alter one's attitude toward sin. Far less likely to be mean, uncaring, unforgiving, lustful, selfish, greedy, etc. Not in all cases obviously, but in many. Why? Because we fear just punishments in the hereafter.

Also, for some of us Christians, we have faith in many promises of God, but as to whether our god is God, it is certain (for me). It is not a matter of faith.

I contend that belief in afterlife punishment and reward is actually a poor motivator for change and instead most rationalize their behavior regardless of its qualities (for example when people are asked if something is moral in their religion under brain scan their brain locates the exact same way as when asked what they believe is moral. They are still personally justifying moral behavior with their own moral compass.) But my point was more theism does not equal Christianity and atheism does not equal without belief system, even religion. A Deist who doesn't believe 'big bother' is watching or cares is just as much if a theist as a Christian. And a (atheistic) Buddhist who believes their behaviors does have afterlife consequences is just as much of an atheist as Dawkins. As such there is virtually no difference in the two as far as behavior and belief except in the existence of god(s) due to the range of beliefs and behaviors in the two categories.

 

[JustWondering]

The proof as always, is in the pudding.

So, by your logic Christians are evil because Hitler and the Nazis were Christians, and all Catholics are pedophiles or support it.

I'm not surprised you think like that, most theists I've known have an extremely black and white view on everything. Most of them have been Christian of course because I live in the states.

 

[Valerian]

I contend that belief in afterlife punishment and reward is actually a poor motivator for change and instead most rationalize their behavior regardless of its qualities (for example when people are asked if something is moral in their religion under brain scan their brain locates the exact same way as when asked what they believe is moral. They are still personally justifying moral behavior with their own moral compass.) But my point was more theism does not equal Christianity and atheism does not equal without belief system, even religion. A Deist who doesn't believe 'big bother' is watching or cares is just as much if a theist as a Christian. And a (atheistic) Buddhist who believes their behaviors does have afterlife consequences is just as much of an atheist as Dawkins. As such there is virtually no difference in the two as far as behavior and belief except in the existence of god(s) due to the range of beliefs and behaviors in the two categories.

"I contend that belief in afterlife punishment and reward is actually a poor motivator for change…"

And it is my opinion that is totally untrue. It is, one, a tremendous motivator; and, two, it is a very healthy way to look at life and its meaning. If we steal fron another one should expect punishment for our greed.

"…and instead most rationalize their behavior regardless of its qualities (for example when people are asked if something is moral in their religion under brain scan their brain locates the exact same way as when asked what they believe is moral. They are still personally justifying moral behavior with their own moral compass.)"

That’s how you see it. I see me and other Christians understanding and believing our behavior is immoral when it goes against what we believe God sees as moral or immoral. The more devout you become the more apparent that is. We are very prone to temptation and sin, maybe even more than unbelievers, and we know when we are violating our conscience. That is sin. So I do not know what bad behavior we are trying to rationalize away?

"…But my point was more theism does not equal Christianity and atheism does not equal without belief system, even religion. A Deist who doesn't believe 'big bother' is watching or cares is just as much of a theist as a Christian."

Well then how important is it being labeled a theist? There is an enormous difference and meaning between a Christian theist and a non-christian theist. I submit there is almost no difference between that kind of theist or a deist or an atheist when it comes to how one orders their lives.

"…And a (atheistic) Buddhist who believes their behaviors does have afterlife consequences is just as much of an atheist as Dawkins. As such there is virtually no difference in the two as far as behavior and belief except in the existence of god(s) due to the range of beliefs and behaviors in the two categories."

Yes, perhaps. But a Buddhist subjects himself to many disciplines and sacrifices whereas an atheist generally does not. And the Buddhist sees much more far reaching repercussions for his actions or non actions than does an atheist. The Buddhist is believing in some kind of cosmic energy influencing man more than does an atheist.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

And it is my opinion that is totally untrue. It is, one, a tremendous motivator; and, two, it is a very healthy way to look at life and its meaning. If we steal fron another one should expect punishment for our greed.

I disagree, the far healthier and more proactive approach is you shouldn't steal because it hurts the person you stole from and their hurt should be your motivation to avoid it. It shifts the focus away from the 'what's in it for me' thinking and engages our naturally evolved sense of empathy, a pro-social trait which puts others before ourselves.
As such, I don't need a security camera in the sky to convince me stealing is wrong. I don't need to be threatened with punishment or bribed into good behavior. I don't focus on whether stealing will hurt or benefit me.

That’s how you see it. I see me and other Christians believing our moral behavior is immoral when it goes against what we believe God sees as immoral. The more devout you become the more apparent that is. We are very prone to temptation and sin, maybe even more than unbelievers, and we know when we are violating our conscience. That is sin. So I do not know what bad behavior we are trying to rationalize away?

Maybe the actual studies might be of interest to you.
Creating God in one's own image - Not Exactly Rocket Science
Dear God, please confirm what I already believe
God Agrees with Me, Or the Ultimate Confirmation Bias

Well then how important is it being labeled a theist? There is an enormous difference and meaning between a Christian theist and a non-christian theist. I submit there is almost no difference between that kind of theist or a deitist or an atheist when it comes to how one orders their lives.

As I said earlier, the terms atheism and theism are only useful for identifying ones stance on belief or disbelief in gods. Nothing more, nothing less.
Incidentally I know plenty of Christians who don't live their lives any differently than I do. They have different beliefs than I do, but the net result of our moral behavior is the same. As I said, I just don't need religious prompting for good moral behavior.

Yes, perhaps. But a Buddhist subjects himself to many disciplines and sacrifices whereas an atheist generally does not. And the Buddhist sees much more far reaching repercussions for his actions or non actions than does an atheist. The Buddhist is believing in some kind of cosmic energy influencing man than does an atheist.

The Buddhist is an atheist. And most don't believe in a 'cosmic energy influencing man.' Just in themselves and the embodiment of their self effecting the outcome, their ego, their individuality, their desires. There is no higher power in most forms of Buddhism, because everyone is the source of all power (oneness) and the lessening of that power is only through ego and division.

 

[Valerian]

I disagree, the far healthier and more proactive approach is you shouldn't steal because it hurts the person you stole from and their hurt should be your motivation to avoid it. It shifts the focus away from the 'what's in it for me' thinking and engages our naturally evolved sense of empathy, a pro-social trait which puts others before ourselves...

>>I disagree, the far healthier and more proactive approach is you shouldn't steal because it hurts the person you stole from and their hurt should be your motivation to avoid it. It shifts the focus away from the 'what's in it for me' thinking and engages our naturally evolved sense of empathy, a pro-social trait which puts others before ourselves.

Yes, this all sounds so lovely on paper, but I think you are giving humanity far too much credit. IOW, I wonder just how many thefts have been prevented because the person intent on stealing something for their own benefit thought further about how sad it would make the victim? I submit for the billions of Christians what prevents them from committing adultery or other sexual sin is the teachings of God, and not how some indirect victim might feel if they found out. Same with stealing, lying, calumny, cheating, and a few others. Now does that mean Christians do not do these things?... of course not. In many, their belief in God and eternal punishments hardly registers on their conscience scale. But to be honest, I consider them Christian in name only and they could be in for a horrible surprise.

>>As such, I don't need a security camera in the sky to convince me stealing is wrong. I don't need to be threatened with punishment or bribed into good behavior. I don't focus on whether stealing will hurt or benefit me.

Ok, fine. You do not think like I do or like many Christians do. We are focused on God and eternity, you seem focused on your own respect for yourself. Totally different philosophies.


>>Maybe the actual studies might be of interest to you.
Creating God in one's own image - Not Exactly Rocket Science
Dear God, please confirm what I already believe
God Agrees with Me, Or the Ultimate Confirmation Bias

Actually, they don’t. Since we have so little time on earth I become extremely selective on what I choose to study. For instance, someone like Dawkins trying to explain to me how there may be no reason or evidence for God, I am way past all that and that would be a total waste of time for me. But as for your particular links -- I really do not care. For most devout Christians who neither doubt Scripture or their Church’s interpretation, we are not allowed to “create God in our own image.” Period. Yes, I know it happens a lot but those believers are fooling themselves. You cannot argue with God that abortion is not sinful, not even artificial contraception in most cases. What other sins are we trying to explain away, I cannot think at the moment?

>>As I said earlier, the terms atheism and theism are only useful for identifying ones stance on belief or disbelief in gods. Nothing more, nothing less.
Incidentally I know plenty of Christians who don't live their lives any differently than I do. They have different beliefs than I do, but the net result of our moral behavior is the same. As I said, I just don't need religious prompting for good moral behavior.

I am sincerely impressed that you are one of “good moral behavior” without any religious prompting. I know of very few. In fact, I know of extremely few of “good moral behavior” (that is, God’s way of looking at this.). But again, since you know so little of God or since you think so little of God can be known by anybody --- then how you view life and conduct does not really matter all that much compared to how God judges. In Scripture, for example, it speaks of the harlots and the thieves in paradise long before those who think they are so well behaved --- which can easily be explained.

>>The Buddhist is an atheist. And most don't believe in a 'cosmic energy influencing man.' Just in themselves and the embodiment of their self effecting the outcome, their ego, their individuality, their desires. There is no higher power in most forms of Buddhism, because everyone is the source of all power (oneness) and the lessening of that power is only through ego and division.

Well I never claimed to know much about Buddhism and its many variations. But if they believe their own actions or mortifications have some kind of cosmic effect on the world, then they must be ascribing to some intellectual force or matter that is beyond human?