Overcoming Death

[YoursTrue]

Ecclesiastes bemoans that eternity has been put into our hearts but that it is denied us. Most people who believe in the afterlife usually excuse Ecclesiastes as not authoritative scripture. Maybe you should do that.

Many people consciously don't want to die. They don't like the thought of death, they go to doctors to help them keep living.

 

[YoursTrue]

Not until we are able to inhabit other planets. Right now no more death would also mean no more birth.

It's possible. I do think that at a certain point there will be no more death and no more births. Just for understanding, there are some who have been childless by choice in this world. So the idea of eventually not giving birth is comprehensible. For me, eternal life and happiness on the earth when it is made over by God and man is also comprehensible. I look forward to happiness in a world without end. On this earth.
John 17:3 - This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yeah, faith only and no evidence. Let us see how long this 'no evidence' thing lasts. If you cannot give any evidence, then your own faith is no better than any other, don't brag about it. I can give evidence for what I believe.

What would you accept as evidence?

 

[Trailblazer]

I don’t think so. I believe God has put a sense of eternity in the human heart because He created us in His image as eternal beings and desires the we find eternal life with Him through Christ the Savior.

What does it mean that we have eternity in our hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)? | GotQuestions.org

I like the definition of eternal life on this website:

What did Jesus mean when He promised an abundant life? | GotQuestions.org

"Abundant life is eternal life, a life that begins the moment we come to Christ and receive Him as Savior, and goes on throughout all eternity. The biblical definition of life — specifically eternal life — is provided by Jesus Himself: “Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” (John 17:3). This definition makes no mention of length of days, health, prosperity, family, or occupation. As a matter of fact, the only thing it does mention is knowledge of God, which is the key to a truly abundant life."

You can read more about eternal life according to the Bible on the website.

 

[Trailblazer]

I look forward to happiness in a world without end. On this earth.

I believe that there are many other worlds besides this earth, but no one knows of them except God.

“As to thy question concerning the worlds of God. Know thou of a truth that the worlds of God are countless in their number, and infinite in their range. None can reckon or comprehend them except God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, pp. 151-152

I do not believe lasting happiness can ever be found on earth, since it is a material world, and that is what causes so much pain and sorrow. I look forward to happiness in the spiritual worlds (heaven) which I believe will be joy and happiness without end.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes.You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.” Gleanings, p. 329

I believe that the spiritual worlds are what Jesus was referring to as the many mansions that are found in heaven:

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What would you accept as evidence?

Scientific method: careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed, given that cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation. It involves formulating hypotheses, via induction, based on such observations; experimental and measurement-based statistical testing of deductions drawn from the hypotheses; and refinement (or elimination) of the hypotheses based on the experimental findings.
Scientific method - Wikipedia

I look forward to happiness in the spiritual worlds (heaven) which I believe will be joy and happiness without end.

The king of Urdu poets, Mirza Asaduddin Khan Beg 'Ghalib', knew this sentiment very well and said:

"Humko maloom hai jannat ki hakikat lekin,
dil ko behelane ko, Ghalib, ye khayal accha hai."

(I know the reality of heaven but, to pamper the heart, O 'Ghalib', this is a nice idea.)

 

[YoursTrue]

I like the definition of eternal life on this website:

What did Jesus mean when He promised an abundant life? | GotQuestions.org

"Abundant life is eternal life, a life that begins the moment we come to Christ and receive Him as Savior, and goes on throughout all eternity. The biblical definition of life — specifically eternal life — is provided by Jesus Himself: “Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” (John 17:3). This definition makes no mention of length of days, health, prosperity, family, or occupation. As a matter of fact, the only thing it does mention is knowledge of God, which is the key to a truly abundant life."

You can read more about eternal life according to the Bible on the website.

So I guess you can figure if there are 'other' worlds, let me try to understand you -- do you think they would evolved like to be humans?

 

[YoursTrue]

Scientific method: careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed, given that cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation. It involves formulating hypotheses, via induction, based on such observations; experimental and measurement-based statistical testing of deductions drawn from the hypotheses; and refinement (or elimination) of the hypotheses based on the experimental findings.
Scientific method - Wikipedia
The king of Urdu poets, Mirza Asaduddin Khan Beg 'Ghalib', knew this sentiment very well and said:

"Humko maloom hai jannat ki hakikat lekin,
dil ko behelane ko, Ghalib, ye khayal accha hai."

(I know the reality of heaven but, to pamper the heart, O 'Ghalib', this is a nice idea.)

It's odd to me that you're an atheist, yet do you actually believe what the poet said?

 

[Aupmanyav]

What the poet said is very true, read my translation carefully. Heaven is a illusory refuge, a crutch, for those who cannot face life.

 

[InChrist]

I like the definition of eternal life on this website:

What did Jesus mean when He promised an abundant life? | GotQuestions.org

"Abundant life is eternal life, a life that begins the moment we come to Christ and receive Him as Savior, and goes on throughout all eternity. The biblical definition of life — specifically eternal life — is provided by Jesus Himself: “Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” (John 17:3). This definition makes no mention of length of days, health, prosperity, family, or occupation. As a matter of fact, the only thing it does mention is knowledge of God, which is the key to a truly abundant life."

You can read more about eternal life according to the Bible on the website.

You have highlighted a very important point!

“This definition makes no mention of length of days, health, prosperity, family, or occupation. As a matter of fact, the only thing it does mention is knowledge of God, which is the key to a truly abundant life."

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Should humanity overcome death?
Death has dominated the human psyche, religion, philosophy, and culture since before the dawn of recorded history.
Or is it best to accept things as they are, and learn to live with the fact that death comes for all?

Yes, death comes to all because all sin - Romans 5:12
However, at the dawn of man's history originally there was No death - Genesis 2:17
The ' way things are ' is going to change according to 1 Corinthians 15:26
Change because through Christ ' enemy death ' will be brought to nothing - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
This is why we are all invited to pray to God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Jesus to come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations. No sickness means: No more death.- Revelation 22:2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

......Heaven is a illusory refuge, a crutch, for those who cannot face life.

Originally it was Not Heaven that was offered but everlasting life on paradisical Earth as Eden was a sample.
Jesus offers 'everlasting life on Earth' to humble meek people - Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11

 

[Goldemar]

Should humanity overcome death?

Death has dominated the human psyche, religion, philosophy, and culture since before the dawn of recorded history.

But should Humanity overcome death?

Or is it best to accept things as they are, and learn to live with the fact that death comes for all?

Extending a high quality life for all through more effective treatments for the diseases and conditions currently associated with the ageing process is I think the way to go, overcoming death completely if it were even possible not so much. Death is as natural as life and we should I think learn to accept it. We could probably do better at discussing it more openly in society.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Originally it was Not Heaven that was offered but everlasting life on paradisical Earth as Eden was a sample.

That too is a crutch.

 

[Trailblazer]

So I guess you can figure if there are 'other' worlds, let me try to understand you -- do you think they would evolved like to be humans?

I believe in other worlds that we will see after we die, but these will not be material worlds, they will be spiritual worlds. I believe that the following quote refers to spiritual worlds, not material worlds, but I am not sure, so I will defer to my friend @Truthseeker since he is more proficient in interpreting the Baha'i scriptures than I am.

“As to thy question concerning the worlds of God. Know thou of a truth that the worlds of God are countless in their number, and infinite in their range. None can reckon or comprehend them except God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, pp. 151-152

I know that the following quote refers to spiritual worlds since it says that in the quote.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes.You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.” Gleanings, p. 329

On the other hand, Baha'u'llah also wrote that there are other planets with creatures, and they might be as evolved or even more evolved than humans. That seems to indicate that there are other material worlds where creatures like humans exist.

“Know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute.” Gleanings, p. 163

“Verily I say, the creation of God embraceth worlds besides this world, and creatures apart from these creatures. In each of these worlds He hath ordained things which none can search except Himself, the All-Searching, the All-Wise. Do thou meditate on that which We have revealed unto thee, that thou mayest discover the purpose of God, thy Lord, and the Lord of all worlds. In these words the mysteries of Divine Wisdom have been treasured.”
Gleanings, pp. 152-153

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe in other worlds that we will see after we die, but these will not be material worlds, they will be spiritual worlds. I believe that the following quote refers to spiritual worlds, not material worlds, but I am not sure, so I will defer to my friend @Truthseeker since he is more proficient in interpreting the Baha'i scriptures than I am.

“As to thy question concerning the worlds of God. Know thou of a truth that the worlds of God are countless in their number, and infinite in their range. None can reckon or comprehend them except God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, pp. 151-152

I know that the following quote refers to spiritual worlds since it says that in the quote.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes.You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.” Gleanings, p. 329

On the other hand, Baha'u'llah also wrote that there are other planets with creatures, and they might be as evolved or even more evolved than humans. That seems to indicate that there are other material worlds where creatures like humans exist.

“Know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute.” Gleanings, p. 163

“Verily I say, the creation of God embraceth worlds besides this world, and creatures apart from these creatures. In each of these worlds He hath ordained things which none can search except Himself, the All-Searching, the All-Wise. Do thou meditate on that which We have revealed unto thee, that thou mayest discover the purpose of God, thy Lord, and the Lord of all worlds. In these words the mysteries of Divine Wisdom have been treasured.”
Gleanings, pp. 152-153

When a person is happy, he knows he's happy. And so since God is love, wherever we are we'll be happy.

 

[Trailblazer]

When a person is happy, he knows he's happy. And so since God is love, wherever we are we'll be happy.

That's true. Wherever we so, if we are with God, we will be happy.

 

[YoursTrue]

That's true. Wherever we so, if we are with God, we will be happy.

Which reminds me of the statement at Revelation 21:1-5, which says that the tent of God will be with mankind and he will be WITH them. Perhaps you have read this before? Please notice how it says new heaven AND a new earth.
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore..The former things have passed away.”
5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true."

 

[Trailblazer]

Which reminds me of the statement at Revelation 21:1-5, which says that the tent of God will be with mankind and he will be WITH them. Perhaps you have read this before? Please notice how it says new heaven AND a new earth.
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore..The former things have passed away.”
5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true."

Yes, I have seen these verses before and I posted my interpretation of them almost two years ago on post #594 of this thread:

Christianity vs Baha'i

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, I have seen these verses before and I posted my interpretation of them almost two years ago on post #594 of this thread:

Christianity vs Baha'i

Just in reiteration though, in order to be happy we have to know we're happy. That means we are alive. The dead, the Bible says, regardless of any metaphors or pointing in illustration to someone suffering after death, know nothing. Because -- one reason is they are d-e-a-d. And death, regardless of how anyone thinks about it, is the opposite of life. Not only am I convinced this is true, but even before I studied those verses in the Bible relating to the subject, I innately knew this is true. No one had to convince me there was no 'suffering' or eternal torment, torture in a place many religionists would call hell. I knew God would never ever do something like that, even though I was not knowing Him or relating to Him at that time in my life. The prospect or subject of fiery hell torturing anyone was and is beyond my ken.
I knew and still know there is life. And there is death. Death is not life. Just like when an animal dies, if that animal has given birth, she isn't looking at her young ones or 'relatives' from heaven. Not even animal heaven. just a little joke there although some really do believe and/or have church services that their pets are alive somewhere after death. To sum up, death is not life.