Palestinian Muslims convert to Judaism (video)

[Caladan]

Caladan, can you tell me if the surname "Jacobs" is a common surname among Dutch Jews?

I had one Dutch ancestor (the Dutch ruled Indonesia in th 1800's), and I've heard that many Jewish people were active in the shipping trade during that time. All we know is that he converted to Islam to marry into our family, but we don't know his religion prior to that.

First of all that is an interesting piece of family history. Now I'm much more knowledgeable on Yiddish/German Jewish and Oriental Jewish surnames than on Western European or Dutch Jewish surnames, but as far as I know while Jacobs is Western usage of a Hebrew name, I don't know that it is a distinctly Jewish surname.

 

[TommyDar]

First of all that is an interesting piece of family history. Now I'm much more knowledgeable on Yiddish/German Jewish and Oriental Jewish surnames than on Western European or Dutch Jewish surnames, but as far as I know while Jacobs is Western usage of a Hebrew name, I don't know that it is a distinctly Jewish surname.

This is an aside to the original topic, but

Indonesians are technically a mixed people. There is not a single race called "Indonesian" but actually 300 different ethnic groups, like Javanese, Acehnese, Sundanese, Balinese, Minangkabau, and so on and so forth. Myself, I am about 90% Javanese and 10% Betawi but those people are probably also mixed with Chinese and Arab-Persian themselves.

Most people who are mixed, became Protestants and the subsequent marriages were with other Europeans since in the time, the Dutch apperance conferred certain rights and thus today most descendants bear Dutch names and look European, but in my case, I suppose the descendants identified more with the native side.

 

[GURSIKH]

It's doubtful. Now that the news is out, they might be hunted down and lynched by an angry mob.

When have you ever heard news of Islam peacefully allowing people to leave? It's always either stoning, hanging, burning down their houses, or something alike. After all such behavior is written by the Koran.

are you secure/safe in indonesia ? or you have not openly declared ?

 

[Gurtej]

Well from what I have been told , there is no compulsion in Islam... Then why so much ho ha when people leave islam? Or am I missing something...

 

[TommyDar]

are you secure/safe in indonesia ? or you have not openly declared ?

I guess it's not as bad as in other places but I haven't openly declared that I'm an atheist yet.

Then why so much ho ha when people leave islam? Or am I missing something...

You are missing the context. The "No compulsion" verse comes from a point when Muslims were weak and didn't have their own army. Once they had a military force history shows that they went through most of the Saudi Arabian peninsula and forcibly converted pagan tribes who resisted their conquests.

 

[GURSIKH]

You are missing the context. The "No compulsion" verse comes from a point when Muslims were weak and didn't have their own army. Once they had a military force history shows that they went through most of the Saudi Arabian peninsula and forcibly converted pagan tribes who resisted their conquests.

no one knows such Islamic history better than Sikhs .

but Sikhs are ordered not to judge anyone on the basis of religion ...

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕੋਊ ਰਾਫਜੀ ਇਮਾਮ ਸਾਫੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ ॥
Someone is Hindu and someone a Muslim, then someone is Shia, and someone a Sunni, but recognize all human race as one and the same.


Peace

 

[Gurtej]

I guess it's not as bad as in other places but I haven't openly declared that I'm an atheist yet.


You are missing the context. The "No compulsion" verse comes from a point when Muslims were weak and didn't have their own army. Once they had a military force history shows that they went through most of the Saudi Arabian peninsula and forcibly converted pagan tribes who resisted their conquests.

Exactly my point...once they r in majority, true colours come out

 

[Sha'irullah]

Well from what I have been told , there is no compulsion in Islam... Then why so much ho ha when people leave islam? Or am I missing something...

Verses in the Quran are invalidated by hadith so anything the Quran says means nothing because of the recorded oral tradition outside of Islam(Quran). There is a hadith associated with Ikrima which clearly states the murder of apostates because Muhammad willed it as necessary. 90% of Muslims follow hadiths which can make claims that support or supply negativity towards Islam.

 

[Gurtej]

Verses in the Quran are invalidated by hadith so anything the Quran says means nothing because of the recorded oral tradition outside of Islam(Quran). There is a hadith associated with Ikrima which clearly states the murder of apostates because Muhammad willed it as necessary. 90% of Muslims follow hadiths which can make claims that support or supply negativity towards Islam.

So u r saying killing of apostates is not in Quran but only Hadith , just want to clarify and then may come up with more questions...

 

[TommyDar]

Verses in the Quran are invalidated by hadith so anything the Quran says means nothing because of the recorded oral tradition outside of Islam(Quran). There is a hadith associated with Ikrima which clearly states the murder of apostates because Muhammad willed it as necessary. 90% of Muslims follow hadiths which can make claims that support or supply negativity towards Islam.

My firm belief is that Islam would not exist today if people did not fear being murdered for leaving. Opposing apostasy is the only reason why Islam still exists in the 21st century.

 

[Sha'irullah]

A lot of violence and propaganda is found in hadiths yes. But where does it say in the Qur'an to kill apostates.

 

[TommyDar]

A lot of violence and propaganda is found in hadiths yes. But where does it say in the Qur'an to kill apostates.

You could have easily searched on Google.

Islam and Freedom of Religion

 

[F0uad]

Morocco too

This is a fabricated story nice try..

Maybe you don't know how Morocco is like but women here don't wear burqa's and most of the younger women don't wear head scarfs. Morocco has the biggest dico's in Africa and is more ''westernized'' then you think.

 

[F0uad]

jeez, F0uad, what's going on over there?

Its a fake article.

[youtube]9WOqcBRedZ4[/youtube]
Morocco Leads Muslim World in Women's Rights - YouTube

 

[F0uad]

A lot of violence and propaganda is found in hadiths yes. But where does it say in the Qur'an to kill apostates.

Not if you read those Hadiths in context.

 

[Sha'irullah]

You could have easily searched on Google.

Islam and Freedom of Religion

I have seen this article before actually. Its usage of Surah An-Nisa ayat 89 is heavily misleading since it does not continue with the following verse. An-Nisa was composed after a time of war. Meccan polytheists disliked Muhammad's teachings of monotheism and how he impacted the economy around Makkah making them lose control. The war was defensive in short.

 

[Monotheist 101]

It's doubtful. Now that the news is out, they might be hunted down and lynched by an angry mob.

When have you ever heard news of Islam peacefully allowing people to leave? It's always either stoning, hanging, burning down their houses, or something alike. After all such behavior is written by the Koran.

Your posts hint at you being an anti-muslim atheist...the best kind ey? May I ask when and how you lost your faith in Islam? Judging by your comments above, Im leaning towards the possibility that you were never muslim..The Quran does not say anything about killing apostates or punishing them..It is only a few extreme countries that have adopted such an inhumane policy.

EX-MUSLIM? why not just change it to ATHIEST!

Ill stick with my observation of claiming that IMO you were never Muslim..or did not understand the Quran or Islam when you were...so either way you werent Muslim.

P.S we dont miss you..

 

[Gurtej]

Not if you read those Hadiths in context.

Just a second, whose translation is correct? Urs or theirs?

Coz similar to u, they believe that they r right..

 

[F0uad]

Just a second, whose translation is correct? Urs or theirs?

Coz similar to u, they believe that they r right..

Huh what? Do you know what a Hadith is or not? Hadiths are sayings describing history its not revelation.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Huh what? Do you know what a Hadith is or not? Hadiths are sayings describing history its not revelation.

My question is why is it you hold hadiths to the standard of revelation. That is something I find quite bizzarre.
When you perform salah do you recite Tashahhud? Did you know you commit shirk when you do so as you are using Muhammad to intercede on your prayers which deifies him.

You say
اللهم صل على محمد وعلى آل محمد، كما صليت على إبراهيم وعلى آل إبراهيم، وبارك على محمد وعلى آل محمد، كما باركت على إبراهيم
وعلى آل إبراهيم، في العالمين إنك حميد مجيد.
Most of Tasha'hud places blessings on Muhammad and Ibrahhim. Placing blessings on a dead man is shirk because a prophet or rasul is just a man. Muhammad is not to be glorified like the Christ of the Christians. You glorify Allah by using the name of Muhammad. So the validity of ahadith are extremely shaky. Oral traditions passed down which are Traditions only mean absolutely nothing. Tradition and salvation are not the same. Acceptance of hadiths is just tradition, it is religious law to only those who are traditionalists.

Surat Az-Sumar ayat 43 "Or have they taken intercessors besides Allah? Say what, even though they did not ever have control over anything, nor do they understand."

Surah Al-Anam verse 70 and Al-Muddaththir ayat 48 also back this up. By following hadith you are often going against Quran.

Yes there are hadith that do not conflict with the Quran but would you seriously trust the words passed on to generation and generation that are not of revealed scripture or would you just go straight to the only relevant source?