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Pants on Fire

C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
lostwanderingsoul said:
John 6:44 says that no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him. If one is not drawn he will probably not believe in any miracles or anything else. That is why there are atheists. They have not been drawn to believe.
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So, most people(including me) don't "come to Jesus" because the Father doesn't draw us?

So, you don't believe in free will?
I'm asking, not telling you what you believe. But that's my interpretation of your post. I don't believe in standard Christian theology because God the Father, Almighty God, doesn't want to draw me to Jesus. For whatever reason Almighty God might have, He doesn't want me.

Well, that would explain why I'm gay I suppose. Almighty God doesn't want me.
Tom
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Power Stone said:
Why don't people believe that Jesus performed miracles? Are all the witnesses lying?
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Which "witnesses?" Who attended any of the so-called miracles who is also one of those who actually wrote about them in the scriptures we have available today?
Deeje said:
If you read the account, by the time Jesus arrived many had gathered around the tomb to mourn for Lazarus. Read John 11.
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It is, of course, an interesting thing that the Lazarus story is NOT recounted by the Synoptic Gospels, but ONLY in John. It's also interesting that John is the LAST of the Gospels written, long after after the events -- in fact, very likely 60 to 70 years after those events. If John were very young while Jesus lived, say 17 or 18, then he'd be somewhere between 77 and 88 when the Gospel was written. How many people lived that long back then? The average life expectancy in around 1800 was less than 40 (Belgium was the winner, at exactly 40).
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Which "witnesses?" Who attended any of the so-called miracles who is also one of those who actually wrote about them in the scriptures we have available today?

It is, of course, an interesting thing that the Lazarus story is NOT recounted by the Synoptic Gospels, but ONLY in John. It's also interesting that John is the LAST of the Gospels written, long after after the events -- in fact, very likely 60 to 70 years after those events. If John were very young while Jesus lived, say 17 or 18, then he'd be somewhere between 77 and 88 when the Gospel was written. How many people lived that long back then? The average life expectancy in around 1800 was less than 40 (Belgium was the winner, at exactly 40).
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Apparently none
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
SalixIncendium said:
First, I can't answer for all people. I can only answer for myself.

Secondly, which miracles specifically are you referring to?

Third, specifically which witnesses are you referring to?
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Resurrection walking on water etc. I thought the Gospels were the witnesses but having read all the comments here I found out that no one really knows
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Deeje said: ↑
@Power Stone stone...have you ever had a Bible study? It is difficult to build faith if you don't know what to put your faith in....
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Faith is unfounded belief; belief without evidence. Why is this something to be desired, especially when knowledge is also available?
 
lewisnotmiller

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Power Stone said:
Well initially I thought the Gospels were written by witnesses but having read the comments here I'm finding out the scholars don't really even know who wrote them
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The general consensus would be 'not eye witnesses'.

But actually, it always interests me when people want to read historical documents (of any sort) in too literal a sense. Taking the theology out of it, for a second, there are many recounts of ancient and even more modern battles where both eye witness and second-hand accounts of the number and composition of combatants is simply incorrect, exaggerated, or skewed.

The intent of accounts was often more to convince or persuade than to factually record.

Consider Herodotus' accounts of the Battle of Marathon or Thermopayle.
Or basically any of the ancient accounts of the Battle of Gaugamela.
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
Valjean said:
Faith is unfounded belief; belief without evidence. Why is this something to be desired, especially when knowledge is also available?
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I think the reasons vary among the 7 billion people who believe in a god or gods. Haha
Knowledge is cool too:D
 
L

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
columbus said:
So, most people(including me) don't "come to Jesus" because the Father doesn't draw us?

So, you don't believe in free will?
I'm asking, not telling you what you believe. But that's my interpretation of your post. I don't believe in standard Christian theology because God the Father, Almighty God, doesn't want to draw me to Jesus. For whatever reason Almighty God might have, He doesn't want me.

Well, that would explain why I'm gay I suppose. Almighty God doesn't want me.
Tom
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I did not make it up. I can only quote what God says. Most people believe Jesus is trying to save the whole world. But that is not what he says.
 
L

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
columbus said:
I agree.
I think you're being more true to Scripture than many religious folks claiming that God loves me.
Tom
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Many religious folk just want to get you to join their group. So they make up things about Jesus desperately trying to save everyone. If that was true, then Jesus is a complete failure because the whole world is very far from being saved.
 
R

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If you lived with an illogical lying male brother who owns cult group mentality by all of his choices, which includes science, and then his brother had to learn science to argue against science, biology of self explanation of living on a ONE of holy planet that says detailed information....then he did.

As the real spiritual brother versus occult mentality of lying, including claiming that the ARK and its building saved life.

History in AI says about science, seeing I hear my brother telling all of his b.s. science stories in the state subliminal recorded feed back said Earth in Sun origin UFO war attack that blew up lots of God bodies into scattered spatial particles...seeing gases and particles are there in the same position, means mass was previously there also.

Said the Earth sealed off the melted above ground God O origin fusion, crystalline mass, melted it, it flowed into the huge sink holes...where the mass of radiation met....water flooded into holes also and the 2 interactive bodies held the Earth core.

Why he knows what he knows, as a storyteller.

Flooded Earth UFO metal radiation ARK....no WOOD. Yet his claim is that building a wooden ark saved life on Earth of 8 humans and 2 x 2 self animal life procreation of its own species. For if 1 of each parent did not exist, then nor would any animal.

And it was written LOOKING BACK, after the fact of occurrence of all information.

And today preaches total lying b.s. about all themes of being Saved.

Saving of life means life survived...because originally it was natural and self present first in its origins.

Males in occult practice proclaim no existence whatsoever first.....hence it is a conscious mind confession to claim, hence my every wish and every pretence is to have you all destroyed and yet you, the less intelligent do not even reason what my motivation is.

Such as I will keep open a lightning channel in the gas mass, that only exists due to gas mass existing.

Yet his machine is taken out of the mass body of stone/ONE GOD body...and so is his gas, taken out of the same ONE BODY.

Is it any wonder that he then told a story about how evil minded lying Satanic radiation aware, occult brother coerces non stop all day long, a cult group belief, held membership of cult beliefs about our destruction, and it always was, just a cult condition...the origins of a cult itself.

Who lies about life surviving his irradiation attack of it. Knew in the old times that no channel remained constant....his machine however did communicate a constant same signal...until the atmosphere reacted and shut it off after it attacked everything.

Why today he says he is trying to theorise how to hold open a channel/radiation mass constant against natural, just for his machine use he claims.

Cult mentality is real, where a male group Destroyer proclaims, but God told me how to do it....when God in its nature never owned the telling of anything. Why he tries to force you all to believe that a God spirit as a speaking identity told him first, so he, the science cult male human would not be blamed for trying to destroy life.

All a part of his coercive behaviours.

The spiritual natural self was always origin to their own presence, humans living as humans, being human with a male trying by and through all scientific studies to work out how to contradict our living presence via a radiation mass applied ANTI communication. Yet no one seemingly realises that it is his intent, to go against what natural does....shuts out the attack.
 
Shadow Link

Shadow Link

Active Member
Power Stone said:
Yeah he's definitely not trying to save the whole world that's for sure
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Correct. The Gospel is concerned only for those in the world that might need to be saved from themselves. Which leads to the question of determining what type that might be.

Miracles can be the lessons for only what certain Truth is capable of explaining. Example: The blind man being able to see after spit and dirt are rubbed into his eyes. An ancient remedy for cataracts?

It could be argued Jesus and Joseph were both great carpenters. Traveling and learning(checking in at the Library of Alexandrea from time to time) and working on professional's houses, picking up on all kinds of great knowledge of the times and times past - hence the many attributive titles given to Jesus.


...just offering another perspective.
 
oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Power Stone said:
Why don't people believe that Jesus performed miracles? Are all the witnesses lying?
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I can only think of one known witness who wrote an account of miracles, and he wasn't lying, he was just seeing amazing actions that looked like miracles.

Most of the stories were passed along by oral tradition.

Unless you can show different?
 
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