Paranormal activity

[MD]

You are not thinking logically. You have assumed what the conclusion is (consciousness is separate from the brain) and are trying to make the premises fit. This theory is a much simpler explanation (and possibly in line with theoretical physics) than things that are blatantly not in line with science. Science shows that consciousness is a product of the brain, so that will never not be the case, so saying otherwise will never be in line with science.

You are making assumptions, there isn't even a proper definition on what conciousness actually is let alone a scientific consensus.

 

[1137]

You are making assumptions, there isn't even a proper definition on what conciousness actually is let alone a scientific consensus.

Sorry to disappoint...

con·scious·ness /ˈkänCHəsnəs/
Noun: 1. The state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.
2. The awareness or perception of something by a person.

Consciousness is awareness and google is your friend.

 

[George-ananda]

You are not thinking logically. You have assumed what the conclusion is (consciousness is separate from the brain) and are trying to make the premises fit.

No, what I'm making is an observation .

Yes, I am starting with the observation that conciousness does not require a physical btain based on my objective analysis of the paranormal evidencd (after death communications, reincarnational memories, near death experiences, etc.)
Therfore any theory that does no account for this must be incomplete.

Isn't this how science works.....

1. Observation of a phenomena is made for which the mechanism is unknown (for example when I look up medical things in Wikipedia I often read things like,,,,,,scientists don't yet know why this occurs but one theory suggests,,,,,,)

2. Theories are made and tested.

3. A theory is accepted as fact when the scientist has the experimental data that is accepted by the larger scientific community to support the theory.

So I am saying for the survival of conciousness observation. stage 1 has occured and we are now in stage 2. Because stage 2 is difficult does not change the fact that stage 1 occured.

Science shows that consciousness is a product of the brain, so that will never not be the case, so saying otherwise will never be in line with science.

This statement is not true. It is a hotly debated topic as you can see.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

My personal experiences to date as remembered:

*Forcefully pushed in my bed when tried to sit up. Twice. (Childhood)
*Two ufo's flew close over my head at high speed without stopping. (Childhood)
*Growls from left side of garage when approached. (Childhood)
*Two occasions where I saw what are called shadow people. (Teen)
*Growl by window a day or two from second shadow person sighting. (Teen)
*My sister had this creepy doll once and I swear it once blinked. (Teen)
*My name called out on multiple occasions where I responded. (Adult)
*I heard an orchestra once whereas no radio or tv was on. No noise from neighbors. (Adult)
*Huge bang in my house both heard by myself and my wife with no explanation as to what the cause even after an extensive investigation. (Adult )
*Strong smell of perfume on one occasion. (Adult )

In spite of all the above you would think I would be a believer and in one respect I am as far as the occurances go. Yet I still maintain a natural cause for each. I won't diss those who believe because at least I can meet you halfway as far as experiencing creepy stuff goes. Just I come to differing explanations. :0)

Same here.

After witnessing chairs being upended, doors slamming shut where no breeze occurred, loud crashes on occasion and stomping sounds upstairs, lights turning on and off, a UFO sighting where it glided silently then sped away at an incredible speed (I wasn't the only one who witnessed that), canned goods flung out several feet from kitchen cabinets, a photograph revealing a shadowy figure, and a crucifix that was bent in half, one could relatively assume I'm a staunch believer in all paranormal explanations.

I just report what I and others experienced. I find your studies on possible scientific explanations fascinating. Can you send me links or book references?

 

[1137]

No, what I'm making is an observation .

Yes, I am starting with the observation that conciousness does not require a physical btain based on my objective analysis of the paranormal evidencd (after death communications, reincarnational memories, near death experiences, etc.)
Therfore any theory that does no account for this must be incomplete.

No, you are starting with the observation that paranormal activity exists, assuming the conclusion that it means consciousness is separate from the brain, and filling in the blanks. Then you are saying that theories that reject the conclusion you leaped for and grasped onto cannot be correct. No, that is not how science works.

 

[MD]

Sorry to disappoint...

con·scious·ness /ˈkänCHəsnəs/
Noun: 1. The state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.
2. The awareness or perception of something by a person.

Consciousness is awareness and google is your friend.

Consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The evolution of the capacity to simulate seems to have culminated in subjective consciousness. Why this should have happened is, to me, the most profound mystery facing modern biology" Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene. Since 1976, it has remained so.


In 2004, eight neuroscientists felt it was too soon for a definition. They wrote an apology in "Human Brain Function":[83]
"We have no idea how consciousness emerges from the physical activity of the brain and we do not know whether consciousness can emerge from non-biological systems, such as computers... At this point the reader will expect to find a careful and precise definition of consciousness. You will be disappointed. Consciousness has not yet become a scientific term that can be defined in this way. Currently we all use the term consciousness in many different and often ambiguous ways. Precise definitions of different aspects of consciousness will emerge ... but to make precise definitions at this stage is premature."

From Michio Kaku - Impossible Science | TDG - Science, Magick, Myth and History

Professor Kaku agreed that "consciousness is one of the great problems facing science," and stated plainly that despite the mainstream view, "most scientists cannot even define it, let alone explain it."

 

[George-ananda]

No, you are starting with the observation that paranormal activity exists, assuming the conclusion that it means consciousness is separate from the brain, and filling in the blanks. Then you are saying that theories that reject the conclusion you leaped for and grasped onto cannot be correct. No, that is not how science works.

I'm not making any complicated logical statement. Let me re-state in a little different way.

I believe the paranormal evidence for survivalism shows survival exists beyond reasonable doubt. (survivalism meaning continuation of an individuals conciousness after death without a physical brain).

Now someone can agree/disagree with my belief. If they disagree then we aren't going to agree on much with each other because we're starting with different beliefs.

By the way, I voted Truth on that survey you started.

 

[1137]

Consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The evolution of the capacity to simulate seems to have culminated in subjective consciousness. Why this should have happened is, to me, the most profound mystery facing modern biology" Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene. Since 1976, it has remained so.


In 2004, eight neuroscientists felt it was too soon for a definition. They wrote an apology in "Human Brain Function":[83]
"We have no idea how consciousness emerges from the physical activity of the brain and we do not know whether consciousness can emerge from non-biological systems, such as computers... At this point the reader will expect to find a careful and precise definition of consciousness. You will be disappointed. Consciousness has not yet become a scientific term that can be defined in this way. Currently we all use the term consciousness in many different and often ambiguous ways. Precise definitions of different aspects of consciousness will emerge ... but to make precise definitions at this stage is premature."

From Michio Kaku - Impossible Science | TDG - Science, Magick, Myth and History

Professor Kaku agreed that "consciousness is one of the great problems facing science," and stated plainly that despite the mainstream view, "most scientists cannot even define it, let alone explain it."

So you are the type that realizes the provided definition we are actually discussing is against what you believe, so you just choose to deny it? I find that highly annoying. The definition of consciousness, as related to this thread, is awareness. When you die, and your brain stops working, there is no way to be aware. People try to complicate it because they want consciousness to be some magical, super special and amazing thing that can live after death, because it all being over is just too depressing. Being conscious is being aware.

I'm not making any complicated logical statement. Let me re-state in a little different way.

I believe the paranormal evidence for survivalism shows survival exists beyond reasonable doubt. (survivalism meaning continuation of an individuals conciousness after death without a physical brain).

Now someone can agree/disagree with my belief. If they disagree then we aren't going to agree on much with each other because we're starting with different beliefs.

By the way, I voted Truth on that survey you started.

What I have made bold is what the issue is. You have your preconceived ideas and, if anything (such as my theory) contradicts it you will reject it. That is not logical, that is not scientific, that is a waste of time.

 

[MD]

So you are the type that realizes the provided definition we are actually discussing is against what you believe, so you just choose to deny it? I find that highly annoying. The definition of consciousness, as related to this thread, is awareness. When you die, and your brain stops working, there is no way to be aware. People try to complicate it because they want consciousness to be some magical, super special and amazing thing that can live after death, because it all being over is just too depressing. Being conscious is being aware.

What? You stated the SCIENTIFIC definition of conciousness is awareness and then you condascendingly point out that 'google is my friend' as if I didn't know that. Lol funny guy.

I've just shown quotes from several prominent scientists who agree that there is no clear definition of conciousness yet and that it is subjective.

Conciousness is not magical but it is super special, we just don't know a lot about it. Our brains which work on algorithms produce something that is a lot more enhanced than the culminations of those algorithms. Not to mention all the quantum effects of conciousness which exists.

You obviously can't formulate an argument against what I've written and decide to stick to whatever your simplistic definition of conciousness is, which is fine. However, don't label me as one of those 'types' of people just because you were proven wrong.

 

[1137]

What? You stated the SCIENTIFIC definition of conciousness is awareness and then you condascendingly point out that 'google is my friend' as if I didn't know that. Lol funny guy.

I've just shown quotes from several prominent scientists who agree that there is no clear definition of conciousness yet and that it is subjective.

Conciousness is not magical but it is super special, we just don't know a lot about it. Our brains which work on algorithms produce something that is a lot more enhanced than the culminations of those algorithms. Not to mention all the quantum effects of conciousness which exists.

You obviously can't formulate an argument against what I've written and decide to stick to whatever your simplistic definition of conciousness is, which is fine. However, don't label me as one of those 'types' of people just because you were proven wrong.

Yeah you really have proven me wrong, haven't you. As far as this thread goes, consciousness = awareness. Have anything to contribute?

 

[MD]

Yeah you really have proven me wrong, haven't you. As far as this thread goes, consciousness = awareness. Have anything to contribute?

Definitions are not set in stone and they are definitely not guided by you. If so this thread is a waste of time.

 

[1137]

Definitions are not set in stone and they are definitely not guided by you. If so this thread is a waste of time.

Obviously you are having some comprehension problems here. This thread was created to discuss paranormal experiences without the silly idea that we will be aware (aka conscious) after death. Anything to contribute?

 

[MD]

Obviously you are having some comprehension problems here. This thread was created to discuss paranormal experiences without the silly idea that we will be aware (aka conscious) after death. Anything to contribute?

Awareness and consciousness are not the same thing, awareness is a component of consciousness but it is not the sole component. Obviously you don't have the mental capacity to understand that. Try looking outside google dictionary in the future for educational purposes. Thanks.

 

[George-ananda]

What I have made bold is what the issue is. You have your preconceived ideas and, if anything (such as my theory) contradicts it you will reject it. That is not logical, that is not scientific, that is a waste of time.

Locok, if I believe grass is green and someone comes up with a theory that implies grass is really pink, I'm going to reject the theory.

 

[1137]

Awareness and consciousness are not the same thing, awareness is a component of consciousness but it is not the sole component. Obviously you don't have the mental capacity to understand that. Try looking outside google dictionary in the future for educational purposes. Thanks.

Consciousness | Define Consciousness at Dictionary.com
Consciousness - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
conscious - definition of conscious by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[MD]

Consciousness | Define Consciousness at Dictionary.com
Consciousness - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
conscious - definition of conscious by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

The very fact that there isn't a strong scientific definition of consciousness is proof that its definition is ambiguous. Face palming emoticons and random dictionary links won't really prove your point. You obviously don't know the difference between scientific definitions and online dictionaries. Sorry just because you're an atheist doesn't make you automatically smart and right.

 

[1137]

The very fact that there isn't a strong scientific definition of consciousness is proof that its definition is ambiguous. Face palming emoticons and random dictionary links won't really prove your point. You obviously don't know the difference between scientific definitions and online dictionaries. Sorry just because you're an atheist doesn't make you automatically smart and right.

Ok how is it possible that you cannot grasp that "consciousness", in this thread, is awareness? Am I speaking a foreign language, is this like way more complex than I realize? Utterly ridiculous.

 

[1137]

Locok, if I believe grass is green and someone comes up with a theory that implies grass is really pink, I'm going to reject the theory.

Totally unrelated. You assume the explanation for paranormal activity is consciousness is separate from the brain. Fine. Provide your logic backing that up as the most basic theory, why it is so undeniable.

 

[MD]

Ok how is it possible that you cannot grasp that "consciousness", in this thread, is awareness? Am I speaking a foreign language, is this like way more complex than I realize? Utterly ridiculous.

Consciousness is more than just awareness, which is what i have repeated so many times. If you are making the claim that this is your thread and you get to make the definitions in your thread about what you want, well that doesn't really make you any different from religious fundamentalists and I will stop wasting my time.

 

[MD]

Sam Harris has stated that consciousness is a very difficult term to define. Yet he has given his own definition which is sentience. Obviously sentience itself is a philosophical definition which is a subject is able to have subjective experiences.

Awareness on the other hand is the ability to perceive with a cognitive response. It is not the core scientific or philosophical definition of consciousness.

Anyways i'm not going to waste my time anymore since this doens't match your 'definition'.