nPeace
Veteran Member
My my...
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Parents on their way to prison for not providing medical care for child.
- Thread starter David1967
- Start date
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Well... if even a fool can easily see that there is no god/supreme being/ultimate power?
I would think a wise man would have no problems at all seeing through the BS, and the only sane conclusion is to be an agnostic/atheist.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Indeed. You don't seem to like it when you are called on your judgmental attitude. Ain't that a peach?
nPeace
Veteran Member
Now that's.... funny.
nPeace
Veteran Member
B. You have no idea how tickled I am by your rants.
nPeace
Veteran Member
You know where to find Jehovah's Witnesses online. I posted a link to the videos. If you didn't see it just go to jw.org. There you can ask any question or search any topic of your interest.
I'm sure you are a grown man, who made your decision at some point in your life. I'm sorry if you weren't properly taught. Equally sorry if you failed to pay attention when the opportunity was there.
However, as a grown man, you still have the opportunity to do as Jesus said. Matthew 7:7, 8
However, a wise king once said:
(Proverbs 13:20) . . .The one walking with the wise will become wise, But the one who has dealings with the stupid will fare badly. . .
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
I would like for those parents to show as to where it is written in the Bible, to with holding medical care from a child, Did not Christ Jesus say suffer not the children to come unto me.
That does not mean let the children suffer.
Christ Jesus also said in, King James Bible When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick"
Mark 2:17
Therefore with holding a child from a Physician is against the teachings of Christ Jesus.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Can you tell me which verses in the Bible says, "Don't watch pornography"?
Hebrews 5:11-14
A person who cannot eat by mouth is fed intravenously, so the method of administration is the same.
Acts 15:28-29..."For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, [and therefore not properly bled] and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
Leviticus 17:14...."the life of every sort of flesh is its blood, because the life is in it. Consequently, I said to the Israelites: “You must not eat the blood of any sort of flesh because the life of every sort of flesh is its blood. Anyone eating it will be cut off.”
This was an offense punishable by death....so it was very serious. And it covered the blood of "ANY" and "EVERY sort of flesh".
Blood is not good medicine as we have proven, and as dedicated doctors have come to realize. The shift is now towards bloodless techniques because they have been shown to be the superior treatment. Any doctor who thinks otherwise is a medical dinosaur.
This video was put up on the Australian Government website. It is nothing to do with JW's and the warnings are clear. Ignore them at your own risk.
Look up the meaning of "morbidity" and "mortality" if you are unclear of their definition.
https://www.blood.gov.au/media
Blood fractions are a conscience issue. In my own research, I found that what crosses over from mother to child via the umbilical chord is a good indicator of what is acceptable to God and what is not, because mother and child do not share the same blood supply. They can be different blood groups and either positive or negative for the Rhesus Factor.
What you recall is of no consequence. Selective memory is a common problem for some apparently.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Of course! Your silly notions of "god" cannot be anything but funny!
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Read it. Twice. Trying to see how much you have to twist that, to equate your silly idea of "don't watch porn".
This ought to be good for a laugh.
How many verses CAN a True Christian™ juggle at once?
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
The above? 100% about EATING. This is because during the Bronze Age, when ignorant goat-herders wrote the bible, they had no clue about germs.
Neither did they have ANY useful medicine or medical practice-- they didn't even know to wash their hands... !
Thus they were ignorant about blood transfusions-- which is NOT EATING.
But you can't expect much from people who were clueless where the sun went at night....
no. That would be a false statement by you.
Another false claim by you.
An even BIGGER lie by you, compounded with the previous lies, that's what? 4? 5? in a row?
Sad, really.
nPeace
Veteran Member
In this case the text obviously passed over your head.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Nope. I just read it as it is written. I do not try to twist it into what it does not say.
As you obviously did-- if you had a point? You had a Golden Opportunity to School me into what you claim it says, instead of belittling me as you did, above.
Classic Dodge: Belittle anyone who criticizes your comment, instead of addressing the criticism.
You're funny. The verse said nothing about pornography (photos or paintings of naked people).
nPeace
Veteran Member
What. Can't take your own medicine?
The text I posted was not a direct answer to the question.
That's all I'll say. It wasn't addressed to you, since I would not present a scripture which I didn't think you would have a clue how it would apply. It's hoped the person it was addressed to will understand the connection.
The ancient Israelites were required to "wash their hands" frequently...by their own Scriptures!
@Deeje has presented a lot of referenced, peer-reviewed material detailing the dangers of transfusing blood, and revealing much safer, non-blood alternative management techniques. Did you overlook them?
Many doctors are recognizing the benefits.
Sad? Only if you refuse to acknowledge there may be safer procedures for healthcare.
RedhorseWoman
Active Member
The problem has absolutely nothing to do with following what Christ required. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention the use of blood for medical purposes. It mentions only eating the blood of an animal killed for food. The pouring out of the animal's blood was showing respect for life. JWs twist this injunction to sacrifice life in order to preserve the symbol of life.
What are you claiming is not the truth? Your comment was in response to my statement about allowed and disallowed fractions of blood. Are you saying that the WTS has never come out listing allowed fractions of blood that are considered to be a conscience matter? If you aren't aware of what your leaders allow you to accept with regards to medical treatment involving blood fractions, then I suggest you start researching your publications to find out what they will allow you to do.
Doesn't your "No Blood" card have a least a partial list of allowed blood fractions? You should check it.
The question, however, was where in the Bible does it list approved and disapproved blood fractions? I'm not aware of any scriptures that do so. These dos and don't s are simply the opinions of your leaders and nothing more...but not knowing what they allow you to do could have serious consequences.
You were the one who asked me to provide a newspaper article about the JW in my home congregation who committed a murder, right? Sorry that that case was too old to have anything that I could locate on the web.
However, here are some links to information about other criminal JWs that you might enjoy. Basically, JWs are no better than any other groups. They aren't more honest or crime-free...they just tend to hide it better.
Crimes committed by Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide:
https://avoidjw.org/en/avoiding-witnesses/crimes-committed-jehovahs-witnesses/
And all you need to do is utilize Google. There's quite a bit of information out there.
RedhorseWoman
Active Member
I'm a bit confused. Doesn't my screen name of RedhorseWOMAN give you a small clue as to my gender?
Trust me...I paid attention very, very well, which is why I started to question what I was told was occurring in the JW organization and what I knew was actually occurring in the JW organization. Granted, I saw the hypocrisy and it bothered me, but, being a "good JW," I pushed those thoughts to the back of my mind and fervently tried to adjust my thinking.
That worked for awhile, but after years of hearing things that I knew weren't true, I finally had to admit that I had been duped. It does take time, though, and it takes a willingness to examine what you are being taught, just as the Beroeans were urged to do. Most JWs, however, do not examine anything...they just accept what they are told.
I remember an article that stated that we were very fortunate that the Bethel brothers were there to do the research for us so that we didn't have to spend time doing research ourselves. I always wondered why the Society didn't want us doing our own research and why, when outside sources were supposedly quoted, the publications almost never listed the source of those quotations. I found out later that most of those "quotes" were taken totally out of context and many, if read in context, meant the opposite of what the publications claimed they did.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
I believe withholding medical care and education is neglect/abuse and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Other than legitimate medical contraindications, such as allergy or something, there is no rational basis to deny care.
Should parents who just beat their kids to death because the bible says you can kill your disobedient kids? The Word of God has few ethical problems with killing kids of any age. Do we support that as a supposedly civilized nation?
Also, the parents don't have the medical training to tell a doctor all that much, only to inform the doctors of known issues like allergy or whatever. For years, my mother told doctors I was allergic to codeine and said I got nausea or something. They finally removed it as an allergy in adulthood because they noted that was a side effect, not an allergic reaction. What else happened to my brother and I because idiots (both in the home and at the hospital) were allowed to have input? My brother was closing in at having 108 degree fever or something (maybe it was 104, can't remember) as a child. They told my parents to give him some tylenol and he'd be fine. Meanwhile, I, as a nurse, have to ship patients to a hospital if I can't get it below 100.4 with the usual methods. Adrian likes to tweak me over nurses deferring to doctors, but it's crap like that that sets me off. I can never forgive idiocy regulating medical practices, no matter who's doing it. Parents who withhold medical care should have their kids taken away just like pharmacists or doctors or nurses who don't want to do something because of their non-medical excuses, I mean, beliefs, should have their licenses taken away for all time. People who want to keep a corpse animated because their beliefs don't recognize brain death should be taken to task for it.
I am an evidence-based medical professional. Yes, the medical profession screws up, but asking non-medical people to identify supposed problems is too much.
If your child needs insulin and you give them orange juice instead, you don't deserve to be around children or anyone with any kind of condition that requires informed decision-making. Media doesn't help either. How many times have medical professionals see a person on TV or in movies bottoming out with their blood sugar and the response is "give them insulin" when you SHOULD BE giving them orange juice, peanut butter, glucagon, SOMETHING ... ANYTHING ... other than insulin!
But in their minds, praying is not being neglectful. We have to protect children and other vulnerable people from idiots who let their pastors give medical advice without a license.
Should all people have access to hospital-quality medical supplies? Because that's what you'll have to do to avoid getting hospital care. Yes, a lot of hospitals suck. I loathed every trip I had to take to the ER because I disagreed with the horrible practices I saw there. However, for now, they are the only ones allowed to have the capacity to do certain things.
"I stayed at a Holiday Inn once" isn't going to cut it in the real world.
But that is a legal issue, not a medical one. In other words, charging an insane amount of money doesn't make the pill or liquid or whatever any more or less effective.
Doctors can turn to medical journals to explain their rationale. "Jesus would cry" people can't.
Indeed. A patient who can't consent for age or mental reasons should NOT be vulnerable to idiots/monsters.
I would imagine it would be because Greeks and Romans had doctors. I don't recall learning of Jewish medical schools. Wouldn't want them danged foreigners with advanced (for the time) surgical techniques messing up my holy body.
Plenty of methods may have been helpful if they had just done them. This was a culture who believed spraying blood all over a room would "cleanse" it, after all. Also, we have no medical follow-ups for most of those Jesus "healed". That they felt better at the end of the story doesn't mean they were cured, which is why you almost never hear from the people meeting with faith healers today ever again after the show's over.
I partially blame the medical professionals or whatever who had a responsibility to report them for neglect. I'm a mandated reporter thanks to my profession (nurse). I just can't let it go or I could lose my license if not my freedom as well.
It'd be rough, but I'd trust even the voodoo priest over just doing nothing. At least they might know some herbs or something that could alleviate symptoms, if they couldn't cure it directly. I mean, Jesus prayed not to die and we saw how THAT turned out, right?
I would imagine it would fit under the same legal theory that if your ox is known to gore people and you didn't do anything about it, you AND the ox had to die.
And as I've told JWs here who gripe about bloodless surgeries, if they believe normal saline works the same way as blood does, they lack far too much information to consent to any procedure.
But what was her H&H? If she wasn't at risk, it wouldn't have been necessary. Blood transfusions, at least every place I've worked, is ordered once it goes below 8. You were on the verge of death. She, apparently, was not.
This is like saying you shouldn't need blood after a gunshot wound to the face because your mom got a paper cut and she healed a lot faster without it.
I would say they really don't. It's based on religious dogma and severe lack of medical knowledge.
So, when Jesus broke the Sabbath ...?
So, when Kid Jesus disobeyed his parents, he should've been stoned to death as was the Mosaic Law?
Should Jesus go to hell for calling people fools? Because that's what he says happens to people who call people fools. Should he have to face the consequences of his own short-sighted judgment?
In the water so unclean they usually drank wine or beer instead? That water?
(edit: Stupid picture that won't post is a person holding up a gallon jug of orange Flint, MI water)
Yum! Bottom's up!
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stvdv
Veteran Member
12 jul 2018 stvdv 017 07
I believe that sometimes hospitals do a bad job
I believe Medical Help should not be business, and now it is Big Pharma Business and that is ethically wrong IMO.
If you are spiritual and believe it's important to stay out of unethical practices than I find it unethical to force someone to go to an unethical hospital
For me the spiritual aspect is more important than the physical aspect. To impose something on another is never good [unless "ACTIVE" harming others]
When you "passive" harm someone by not giving I have less problems with that. I also take into account that children "choose" their parents [from spiritual karma view]
Here we have a clear discrepancy between people who see things worldly against people who see things spiritually.
Very nice example showing that imposing is not good IMO
Example: Martian lands on earth and imposes his way of living onto us. You would happily agree? This is similar IMO.
1) Asking very much money; Big Pharma is a bit maffia like. Not good for spiritual person IMO
2: It's medical: It's not healthy on subtle levels to be in a place with "maffia as leaders". Easy to see "nurses can't spend 1 sec too much on a patient"
3: It's spiritual: That is obvious when it's related to maffia
4: It's humane: This above all. Can't force bills onto others who can't afford them [if free than it's different; maffia part would have been removed thereby probably also]
AND very easy to prove if government wanting to impose on parents the MUST to give THEIR child the care the government imposes, even if they can't afford [bills are expensive if not rich]
If government does it out of love for the child let them prove it = Grant these children at least free care
They won't do that. Ergo "they don't love". It's just business and politics [even worse, I call this emotional manipulating into guilt tactics = anti-love]
I believe that sometimes hospitals do a bad job
Would be best if all people get free medical care [My Master started two totally free Super Speciality Hospitals in India to show the world how it should be done; being humane]
I believe Medical Help should not be business, and now it is Big Pharma Business and that is ethically wrong IMO.
If you are spiritual and believe it's important to stay out of unethical practices than I find it unethical to force someone to go to an unethical hospital
For me the spiritual aspect is more important than the physical aspect. To impose something on another is never good [unless "ACTIVE" harming others]
When you "passive" harm someone by not giving I have less problems with that. I also take into account that children "choose" their parents [from spiritual karma view]
Here we have a clear discrepancy between people who see things worldly against people who see things spiritually.
Very nice example showing that imposing is not good IMO
Example: Martian lands on earth and imposes his way of living onto us. You would happily agree? This is similar IMO.
1) Asking very much money; Big Pharma is a bit maffia like. Not good for spiritual person IMO
1: It's legal: The maffia part
2: It's medical: It's not healthy on subtle levels to be in a place with "maffia as leaders". Easy to see "nurses can't spend 1 sec too much on a patient"
3: It's spiritual: That is obvious when it's related to maffia
4: It's humane: This above all. Can't force bills onto others who can't afford them [if free than it's different; maffia part would have been removed thereby probably also]
AND very easy to prove if government wanting to impose on parents the MUST to give THEIR child the care the government imposes, even if they can't afford [bills are expensive if not rich]
If government does it out of love for the child let them prove it = Grant these children at least free care
They won't do that. Ergo "they don't love". It's just business and politics [even worse, I call this emotional manipulating into guilt tactics = anti-love]
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Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Again, you cannot actually address any criticism of your "argument" -- instead you criticize the person.
AS YOU JUST DID ABOVE: "I didn't think you would have a clue how it would apply."
YOUR VERSE ABSOLUTELY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH PORN-- AND YOU KNOW IT.
You hate that I called you on your lie-- the entirety of your "rebuttal" is to call me ugly things...
How very Jesus of you--not.