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Paris attack: Two Muslim women are stabbed under the Eiffel Tower

In France there are 8 times more Muslims than in America (so I understand that Macron sees this more of an issue than Trump). Having these terrorist attacks in France, trying to undermine France's Freedom, I understand that Macron is not waiting another 10 years. Of course there will be some unfortunate problems, but that is always the case. Sadly it's mostly the innocent people that get hurt.

From what I've seen of European Muslims on the television, I'd absolutely despise my government for letting these people in and flood the country and then shoving them into ghettos or whatever, all these low class construction workers from North Africa or whatever, making the place scary as heck and full of very scary dudes around every corner and their maniac children as well. Low class North African laborers are some seriously scary people at some times, based on reports from actual people dealing with them, including females with Morrocan ancestry and stuff that are my friends who have been harassed by these people.

Japan is one of the more racist governments in existence, and have kept out floods of immigrants like this as far as I know, and seem to be faring better in this respect (while destroying their own people and culture with their extremist work ethic, labor laws, and improper mental health awareness and care or acknowledgment).

I like the idea of blocking immigration and forcing these people all back to their countries of origin, so that I can visit Europe without as much fear and concern of being potentially attacked or something by low-class ghetto-ized immigrants with too much testosterone and mental problems or something. They are terrifying, and I'm terrified for any female as well walking by construction sites. I've heard terrible stories directly from people in multiple countries, Spain, UK, Germany, Denmark, and France.

I don't like the immigration flood that was allowed in Canada either, though I'm here in Canada and my family were immigrants as well, crime filled areas are filled with people from India (like Surrey) and Sikh mafias basically, and then flooded with people from China and Taiwan who were making these places just for themselves, with no English written anywhere on their signs or anything so totally cutting off English speaking locals from feeling comfortable entering, and taking up real estate and business spaces because they somehow have tons more money or whatever and are able to afford such, its just a mess.

So, I myself am an immigrant from an immigrant family anyway (born in Canada, lived in the US for most my life after so far) and I hear about all the mess being made and have seen it with my own eyes in the USA and Canada, in Hawaii, Florida, New York, Southern California with immigrants from South of the Border, and immigrants from all over the place who bring along their difficulties and have to deal with and live in a cutthroat sort of fashion to survive, I've directly spoken with people who have taken to drug dealing, theft, or numerous government scams and fraud type deals they have casually mentioned people they know doing or thinking of doing or something. Often these were people who mistrusted (and maybe rightfully so) the government and any advice to protect themselves from spreading diseases and stuff and so their entire families ended up getting and spreading COVID most recently. Others I've talked to have been directly attacked, robbed, even sexually abused by people since these aren't often educated immigrants from high class families but basically people who somehow managed to come into the country as low paid workers and laborers and things, which are basically the same people who commit crimes in their own countries as well.

So yeah, this immigration looseness has seemingly become a total mess, and I really don't believe it will be possible to have the medium level racist dream of forcing them back to their originating lands, especially when they have had so many children in the new countries, while most irritatingly not integrating well or properly at all and trying to build their shanty town world in whatever areas they huddle in together and start growing from and taking over.

The Chinese people have seemingly taken over Richmond in Vancouver and the Indians have taken over Surrey in Vancouver. In New York there are entire areas of just one ethnicity mainly, like the Spanish areas, or African American areas, and its almost like its segregated. London has areas that are entirely people from around India, North Vancouver has tons of people from Iran.

I think that the Assyrian conquerors or whoever maybe Babylonians had the right idea if they forced people apart when they took them in and forced them to be separated and thus unable to resist integration as much, whereas in festering segregated ghettos people form these leagues and gangs and become resistant and try to maintain their made up alien culture they now feel is threatened, so then it breeds things like criminality, radical religious fundamentalism, all kinds of craziness which is seemingly seen much more in Europe the last few decades than in the U.S.A. or Canada.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
From what I've seen of European Muslims on the television, I'd absolutely despise my government for letting these people in and flood the country and then shoving them into ghettos or whatever, all these low class construction workers from North Africa or whatever, making the place scary as heck and full of very scary dudes around every corner and their maniac children as well. Low class North African laborers are some seriously scary people at some times, based on reports from actual people dealing with them, including females with Morrocan ancestry and stuff that are my friends who have been harassed by these people.

Japan is one of the more racist governments in existence, and have kept out floods of immigrants like this as far as I know, and seem to be faring better in this respect (while destroying their own people and culture with their extremist work ethic, labor laws, and improper mental health awareness and care or acknowledgment).

I like the idea of blocking immigration and forcing these people all back to their countries of origin, so that I can visit Europe without as much fear and concern of being potentially attacked or something by low-class ghetto-ized immigrants with too much testosterone and mental problems or something. They are terrifying, and I'm terrified for any female as well walking by construction sites. I've heard terrible stories directly from people in multiple countries, Spain, UK, Germany, Denmark, and France.

I don't like the immigration flood that was allowed in Canada either, though I'm here in Canada and my family were immigrants as well, crime filled areas are filled with people from India (like Surrey) and Sikh mafias basically, and then flooded with people from China and Taiwan who were making these places just for themselves, with no English written anywhere on their signs or anything so totally cutting off English speaking locals from feeling comfortable entering, and taking up real estate and business spaces because they somehow have tons more money or whatever and are able to afford such, its just a mess.

So, I myself am an immigrant from an immigrant family anyway (born in Canada, lived in the US for most my life after so far) and I hear about all the mess being made and have seen it with my own eyes in the USA and Canada, in Hawaii, Florida, New York, Southern California with immigrants from South of the Border, and immigrants from all over the place who bring along their difficulties and have to deal with and live in a cutthroat sort of fashion to survive, I've directly spoken with people who have taken to drug dealing, theft, or numerous government scams and fraud type deals they have casually mentioned people they know doing or thinking of doing or something. Often these were people who mistrusted (and maybe rightfully so) the government and any advice to protect themselves from spreading diseases and stuff and so their entire families ended up getting and spreading COVID most recently. Others I've talked to have been directly attacked, robbed, even sexually abused by people since these aren't often educated immigrants from high class families but basically people who somehow managed to come into the country as low paid workers and laborers and things, which are basically the same people who commit crimes in their own countries as well.

So yeah, this immigration looseness has seemingly become a total mess, and I really don't believe it will be possible to have the medium level racist dream of forcing them back to their originating lands, especially when they have had so many children in the new countries, while most irritatingly not integrating well or properly at all and trying to build their shanty town world in whatever areas they huddle in together and start growing from and taking over.

The Chinese people have seemingly taken over Richmond in Vancouver and the Indians have taken over Surrey in Vancouver. In New York there are entire areas of just one ethnicity mainly, like the Spanish areas, or African American areas, and its almost like its segregated. London has areas that are entirely people from around India, North Vancouver has tons of people from Iran.

I think that the Assyrian conquerors or whoever maybe Babylonians had the right idea if they forced people apart when they took them in and forced them to be separated and thus unable to resist integration as much, whereas in festering segregated ghettos people form these leagues and gangs and become resistant and try to maintain their made up alien culture they now feel is threatened, so then it breeds things like criminality, radical religious fundamentalism, all kinds of craziness which is seemingly seen much more in Europe the last few decades than in the U.S.A. or Canada.

Indeed, I also feel it's best to not allow too many immigrants of a totally different culture, esp. if the religion of that culture has as it's teaching "my way is the highway", or we need to evangelize and spread our message; this is just asking for trouble, esp. if there are verses in their Scriptures which are violent or are easily to interpret in a violent way (which most Scriptures have)

When immigrants are Atheists or Humanists you probably have less problems, unless the country is predominantly Islam or Christian. Or unless Atheists and Humanists are also into evangelizing.

IF people believe in God THEN they also should believe that God put them in their country for a reason, and accept their country IMO.
 
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Indeed, I also feel it's best to not allow to many immigrants of a totally different culture, esp. if the religion of that culture has as it's teaching "my way is the highway", or we need to evangelize and spread our message; this is just asking for trouble, esp. if there are verses in their Scriptures which are violent or are easily to interpret in a violent way (which most Scriptures have)

When immigrants are Atheists or Humanists you probably have less problems, unless the country is predominantly Islam or Christian. Or unless Atheists and Humanists are also into evangelizing.

IF people believe in God THEN they also should believe that God put them in their country for a reason, and accept their country IMO.

I mainly credit their poverty level, economic background or societal "caste", and the way they are given low income jobs or kept in low income areas and stuff when shoved into ghettos are the main contributing factors for increased likelihood to commit crimes of all sorts. If these were all upper middle class educated doctor type people, they probably wouldn't have been hooting and whistling at women crossing by the hospitals they work at, the people invited into these countries were people from the bottom rung or society sometimes, sometimes even with unregistered criminal backgrounds or from criminal connected families or with mental problems running in their families, who were poor and uneducated (the most dangerous and prone to crime bunch of people), and they were brought in to perform low cost labor jobs (almost like slave labor, but they are paid), and then their children and sometimes they themselves also might commit crimes, theft, fraud, armed robbery, sex crimes, or try to make extra cash through drug dealing and gangsterism and threats. It was these sort of people that also were in the early days Ghetto-ized in America and were the Mafia families sometimes, so it happens just about every time any group of poor low class people is kept poor and low class in a segregated ghetto where they are all shoved together and then crime tends to increase connected to them and from that hotspot.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I think people did see it coming, and now we can probably expect some further retaliation from the other side.

As for pictures of Muhammad, it doesn't always seem to lead to violence though. After the Charlie Hebdo murders, someone in Texas organized a Muhammad cartoon drawing contest and was practically daring the Muslims to try something, but they never did. Or others might burn the Quran and say "Come and get us, Muslims!" A lot of people are spoiling for a fight.
Texas? ...
I dunno, there seems be plenty of hatred in Texas too, I guess.
The history an' all.....
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Sounds like you're blaming the victim for showing the drawings. Why should the West have to change our values to appease some hateful people who shouldn't be here in the first place? It's quite ironic that the killer is Chechyan. They should just send him back there and let the Russians deal with him. They aren't effected by our terrified PC culture over there and don't mess around.
Heh!
Read my post again...... I blamed French Legislation.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
This is almost like an incident which I can vaguely recalled happened around 9-10 years ago when I was a Muslim. Some people decided to build a mosque near ground zeroes [where the world trade center was located (I think?)]. And a backlash followed the incident. I can't remember exactly what happened since it's nearly a decade ago, but some Christian did something provocative to Muslims and became a headliner. Can't remember what he did, though.

Seriously, all these terrorism and fighting is backlash, venting out of anger, vengeance, and bitterness, ignorance and other factors. Religions are not mainly at fault. Even the devil can quote the bible.
Fair enough.
Fair comment.
The BLM movement isn't about religion, but there sure is some dreadful business with some police actions ......
We can find hate mostly any place.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Legislation against blasphemy doesn't protect people from vigilante action in Pakistan and elsewhere. Why should we expect it to be magically different in France?

Firstly, this has all happened in France, so let's focus upon France, can we?

If French legislation did not allow schools to leave the national curriculum for 13 yr olds, and/or if French legislation did not allow such images to be shown within the national curriculum, would Mr Paty be safe and well today?

Well? Would he? And if he would have been safe and well, is it just possible that the two Muslim women in Paris might never have been attacked in backlash incidents?

Well?
 

Hellbound Serpiente

Active Member
Fair enough.

Fair comment.

The BLM movement isn't about religion, but there sure is some dreadful business with some police actions ......

We can find hate mostly any place.

I googled out what happened as a backlash resulted from that mosque building incident near ground zero:

Dove World Outreach Center Quran-burning controversy - Wikipedia

Again, my point is this isn't mostly due to religion [no where does Bible teaches to burn Qur'an and/or to bully Muslims etc.]. Here, Terry Jones was venting out his anger and this was all a backlash at building of mosque near ground zero. I disagree to some [maybe even great] extend with people who think that such evils doesn't happen without the original instructions from the text. Sure, there are people who get things twisted and blow it completely out of proportion [I've had bad experience with such people through my life, religious and non-religious alike] to carry acts of evil out of ignorance, but that doesn't happen most of the time. It's usually people with inherent problems that tends to view things [in this case, religious scriptures etc.] with their very own idealized scope of reality, and anything that doesn't fit this scope is deliberately discarded and/or twisted to fit their narrow scope of reality. They use things like Qur'an and Science and other things as a tool for their own personal agendas.

Some people even purposely lie by showing distorted versions of Qur’an so gullible Muslims fight for their political/other goals. I can think of Hamas atm. Israel/Palestine conflict is entirely a territorial, regional war. It has nothing to do with religion. There are many, MANY Muslims living in Israel and they are living a life FAR better than that other Muslims are living in Muslim countries. Yet, they use [distorted] version of Islamic teachings to make it as if fighting for the cause of Hamas is equivalent to fighting for the cause of Allah, and bamboozle gullible, ignorant Muslims to fight their illegal, unjust war for them. Like the saying goes --- “Even the devil can quote the bible.”

With that said, I accept that there are many who aren’t inherently cruel yet do immeasurable harm because of their religious beliefs. Take, for example, circumcision [both male and female] common in Muslim world. Circumcision isn’t compulsory in Islam, and has absolutely no mention in the Qur’an, yet many ignorant Muslim thinks it’s compulsory do it in illiterate, poverty ridden areas like Pakistan and some part of Africa and many other parts of the world. Another example --- Honor killings. Many people think this is Islamic thing, but it isn't. It's ENTIRELY a cultural/tribal practice. Also, honor killings was/is also common among non-Muslims [like Hindus (google "Sati" tradition), Sikhs etc.] who have nothing to do with Islam. Another example is stoning to death punishment in Islam. There’s not a single verse in The Holy Qur’an that talks about stoning, yet Muslims practice this sick, barbaric punishment. Entire Sharia system and all the crimes against humanity, against innocent women, non-Muslims, homosexuals and other sets of individuals is another concrete proof of that. Traditions involving animal cruelty in Muslim world is yet another example. Agonizing innocent women for not wearing full burkha is another example. There are COUNTLESS examples. So, yes, I do agree with those that think that it’s not necessarily only the cruel individual who cause harm, ignorant people too.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I googled out what happened as a backlash resulted from that mosque building incident near ground zero:

Dove World Outreach Center Quran-burning controversy - Wikipedia

Again, my point is this isn't mostly due to religion [no where does Bible teaches to burn Qur'an and/or to bully Muslims etc.]. Here, Terry Jones was venting out his anger and this was all a backlash at building of mosque near ground zero. I disagree to some [maybe even great] extend with people who think that such evils doesn't happen without the original instructions from the text. Sure, there are people who get things twisted and blow it completely out of proportion [I've had bad experience with such people through my life, religious and non-religious alike] to carry acts of evil out of ignorance, but that doesn't happen most of the time. It's usually people with inherent problems that tends to view things [in this case, religious scriptures etc.] with their very own idealized scope of reality, and anything that doesn't fit this scope is deliberately discarded and/or twisted to fit their narrow scope of reality. They use things like Qur'an and Science and other things as a tool for their own personal agendas.

Some people even purposely lie by showing distorted versions of Qur’an so gullible Muslims fight for their political/other goals. I can think of Hamas atm. Israel/Palestine conflict is entirely a territorial, regional war. It has nothing to do with religion. There are many, MANY Muslims living in Israel and they are living a life FAR better than that other Muslims are living in Muslim countries. Yet, they use [distorted] version of Islamic teachings to make it as if fighting for the cause of Hamas is equivalent to fighting for the cause of Allah, and bamboozle gullible, ignorant Muslims to fight their illegal, unjust war for them. Like the saying goes --- “Even the devil can quote the bible.”

With that said, I accept that there are many who aren’t inherently cruel yet do immeasurable harm because of their religious beliefs. Take, for example, circumcision [both male and female] common in Muslim world. Circumcision isn’t compulsory in Islam, and has absolutely no mention in the Qur’an, yet many ignorant Muslim thinks it’s compulsory do it in illiterate, poverty ridden areas like Pakistan and some part of Africa and many other parts of the world. Another example --- Honor killings. Many people think this is Islamic thing, but it isn't. It's ENTIRELY a cultural/tribal practice. Also, honor killings was/is also common among non-Muslims [like Hindus (google "Sati" tradition), Sikhs etc.] who have nothing to do with Islam. Another example is stoning to death punishment in Islam. There’s not a single verse in The Holy Qur’an that talks about stoning, yet Muslims practice this sick, barbaric punishment. Entire Sharia system and all the crimes against humanity, against innocent women, non-Muslims, homosexuals and other sets of individuals is another concrete proof of that. Traditions involving animal cruelty in Muslim world is yet another example. Agonizing innocent women for not wearing full burkha is another example. There are COUNTLESS examples. So, yes, I do agree with those that think that it’s not necessarily only the cruel individual who cause harm, ignorant people too.
So you don't like Islam too much then?
 

Hellbound Serpiente

Active Member
I think it's an outdated ideology. I personally feel like the attention of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. and his message [Islam] was solely targeted towards the Bedouin Arab society of the 7th century, and it is absolutely irrelevant and useless now. While I do personally feel like Qur'an is holy and Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. was truthfull, it's not applicable to us who are living in 21 century Information Era. And unfortunately, [mis]apprehension, [mis]understanding and [mis]application of Islam has done more harm to humanity than benefit [and history and current events backs me up on that]. Which I why I think Islam [along with other Abrahamic religions] should either be reformed to be in-line with the enlightened era and more humane values of this enlightened era we are living in or it should be abolished.
 
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Hellbound Serpiente

Active Member
I'd like to add that the only religion I feel drawn towards is Sanatana Dharma. It is the only religion that seems to be applicable in all eras, and it's practices and teachings are independent on the time and place we live in [unlike Islam]. It can be sanely applied in every era.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Firstly, this has all happened in France, so let's focus upon France, can we?

If French legislation did not allow schools to leave the national curriculum for 13 yr olds, and/or if French legislation did not allow such images to be shown within the national curriculum, would Mr Paty be safe and well today?

Well? Would he? And if he would have been safe and well, is it just possible that the two Muslim women in Paris might never have been attacked in backlash incidents?

Well?
We can't say, he might have had the courage to do it as an act of civil disobedience against an unjust law, or he might not have done it at all and simply have been falsely accused of blasphemy to settle a personal grudge as frequently happens around the world.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
We can't say, he might have had the courage to do it as an act of civil disobedience against an unjust law, or he might not have done it at all and simply have been falsely accused of blasphemy to settle a personal grudge as frequently happens around the world.

Huh?
If France does not have a strict curriculum for all Middle Schools with inspectors to ensure that standards are kept, then that could only show us French standards, imo.

I am most saddened to know that Mr Patys showed images of Muhammud that could have upset Muslims, especially children.

Maybe it might have been different if naked cartoon images of Bahauallah had been shown? I can tell you that even decent pictures of either person would be strictly banned/moderated here on RF. Let that be your guide, Daniel.
 
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