Parkland, Nikolas Cruz, and the Death Penalty

[England my lionheart]

To be fair, those who support the death penalty often raise the same issue, asking why we as taxpayers are supporting the life of a murderer.

Like it or not, there is a community burden either way. If we want to get serious about preventing crime, I think it's worth looking into supporting healthy communities through welfare programs, education, healthcare, and other supports.

Nice idea,but in a country where you can hang out with an AR 15 outside of an FBI building where do you start?.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Nice idea,but in a country where you can hang out with an AR 15 outside of an FBI building where do you start?.

That's the million dollar question.

Where do we start in a country where people feel they have to go into a school and shoot kids?

 

[fantome profane]

He was also a threat.

And there it is. I can’t get behind killing someone who is not a threat.

I feel for the parents, and I won’t judge them for wanting this, but I don’t support it.

 

[England my lionheart]

He was also a threat.

In any event, you've now admitted that your support of the death penalty has nothing to do with "closure," so we cal lay that argument to rest in your case.

I disagree,it ticks the boxes of closure,the murderer dies,his life is closed,the parents can try to move on and heal.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I disagree,it ticks the boxes of closure,the murderer dies,his life is closed,the parents can try to move on and heal.

Stop dancing around. We know from your comments that the "closure" box is irrelevant, i.e., you're for the death penalty whether it's "ticked" or not. That is your position. Have the courage to own it.

 

[fantome profane]

I disagree,it ticks the boxes of closure,the murderer dies,his life is closed,the parents can try to move on and heal.

You need to consider how prone to error and bias the legal system is. Maybe you don’t think that is relevant in this specific case, maybe it isn’t. But generally our system is not trustworthy enough to be handing out irrevocably punishments. Not when there is another option.

 

[England my lionheart]

You need to consider how prone to error and bias the legal system is. Maybe you don’t think that is relevant in this specific case, maybe it isn’t. But generally our system is not trustworthy enough to be handing out irrevocably punishments

Exactly that,in this case there is no doubt but in others there have been miscarriages of justice so my opinion is based on this particular case.

 

[England my lionheart]

Stop dancing around. We know from your comments that the "closure" box is irrelevant, i.e., you're for the death penalty whether it's "ticked" or not. That is your position. Have the courage to own it.

Sure,in a case like this I think it’s appropriate,I really do think it’s some closure for the family too.

 

[F1fan]

I don't know enough about the case to vote. Frankly I don;t have a problem with the death penalty in a case like this, and when the killer is confirmed.

My only question is what was reported from the defense in that the killer had fetal alcohol poisoning, and thus cognitive impairment. I'm not sure if this is valid or confirmed, but the guy might not understand what he was doing.

I support the death penalty in cases where the person has no remorse and is just a vile human. I am not sure if this killer showed remorse or not. If he did I can accept life in prison.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

My only question is what was reported from the defense in that the killer had fetal alcohol poisoning, and thus cognitive impairment.

Mitigating circumstances were persistently maintained by the defense and, best I can tell, the argument successfully led to three jurors opposing the death penalty. Even if one is not opposed to the death penalty in principle, one should provisionally accept the conclusion of these jurors unless and until the arguments are shown to be without merit.

 

[Heyo]

From the NPR article: A jury recommends life in prison for Parkland shooter Nikolas Cruz

Speaking to the press after the verdict, family members of the victims expressed anger and frustration.

"I am disgusted with our legal system. I am disgusted with those jurors," said Ilan Alhadeff, the father of victim Alyssa Alhadeff. "That you can allow 17 dead and 17 others shot and wounded and not give the death penalty. What do we have the death penalty for? What is the purpose of it? You set a precedent today. You set a precedent for the next mass killing, that nothing happens to you. You'll get life in jail. I'm sorry – that is not OK. As a country we need to stand up and say that's not OK!"

"I pray that that animal suffers every day of his life in jail. And he should have a short life," Alhadeff added.

Cruz carried out the massacre on Valentine's Day in 2018. He was 19 at the time, and had been expelled from the school. He entered a school building through an unlocked side door and used an AR-15-style rifle to kill 14 students and three staff members, as well as wound 17 others.​

Hence the poll ...

I'm unconditionally pro life.

I.e., no matter the case, the death penalty should never be an option. All civilized countries have understood that. The Founding Fathers had a vague idea of it expressed in the preamble of the Declaration of Independence (but never ratified it). It is time the US joins the first world in this matter.

 

[YoursTrue]

Well,looking at some of these posts, I wonder -- what if a person who is a murderer, a serial murderer and somehow escapes prison? Might he kill again?

 

[YoursTrue]

Mitigating circumstances were persistently maintained by the defense and, best I can tell, the argument successfully led to three jurors opposing the death penalty. Even if one is not opposed to the death penalty in principle, one should provisionally accept the conclusion of these jurors unless and until the arguments are shown to be without merit.

What are mitigating circumstances for serial murderers or serial rapists or serial child abusers? Drug addicted parents? Rough upbringing? Brain damage? Again -- what if the serial murderer, rapist, or child abuser gets out of prison, perhaps escapes? It's ok for him to kill again and maybe put him back in jail? Not every state in the U.S. has the death penalty, by the way.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm unconditionally pro life.

I.e., no matter the case, the death penalty should never be an option. All civilized countries have understood that. The Founding Fathers had a vague idea of it expressed in the preamble of the Declaration of Independence (but never ratified it). It is time the US joins the first world in this matter.

Quite a few in the U.S. are behind bars, and probably many more (criminals) are not behind bars. Accordingly, almost 2 million people are in 1,566 state prisons, 102 federal prisons, 2,850 local jails, 1,510 juvenile correctional facilities, 186 immigration detention facilities, and 82 Indian country jails, as well as in military prisons, civil commitment centers, state psychiatric hospitals, and prisons in the U.S. territories.
Quite a few behind bars.
“What percent of the U.S. is incarcerated?” (And other ways to measure mass incarceration) | Prison Policy Initiative

 

[Heyo]

What are mitigating circumstances for serial murderers or serial rapists or serial child abusers?

According to the UN, 1. age and 2. mental impairment. Both have been disregarded by US courts.

 

[Heyo]

Quite a few in the U.S. are behind bars, and probably many more (criminals) are not behind bars. Accordingly, almost 2 million people are in 1,566 state prisons, 102 federal prisons, 2,850 local jails, 1,510 juvenile correctional facilities, 186 immigration detention facilities, and 82 Indian country jails, as well as in military prisons, civil commitment centers, state psychiatric hospitals, and prisons in the U.S. territories.
Quite a few behind bars.
“What percent of the U.S. is incarcerated?” (And other ways to measure mass incarceration) | Prison Policy Initiative

Yep, according to those numbers US citizens are the most criminal in the world.
(Makes it more understandable how so many criminals end up in high positions in government.)

 

[YoursTrue]

According to the UN, 1. age and 2. mental impairment. Both have been disregarded by US courts.

Mitigating circumstances would make a serial killer, or rapist less guilty?

 

[YoursTrue]

Yep, according to those numbers US citizens are the most criminal in the world.
(Makes it more understandable how so many criminals end up in high positions in government.)

They might, in more ways than one, get away with murder without personally killing someone or setting someone else up to kill another. Sad set of circumstances, isn't it. But then, if I might, that's evolution. So since it's "natural" for people to commit crimes, maybe islands filled with criminals is an answer? Where of course, the residents therein cannot get off the island.
Personally, when I was in school, and even now to an extent, I felt that free enterprise was a very unfair way to make a living. Because some became rich at a poor person's expense. Everyone cannot have it all. Some must have to have less. When they taught me about Machiavelli and the city system, I thought -- wow, that's so unfair. Now granted that many serial killers and rapists may not be too affected mentally by the idea of free enterprise, nevertheless there are murderers and then covert murderers such as those knowingly and willfully taking economic advantage of others, knowing the abject poverty that they put others in and not caring because they continue to do it. But then -- where do we go?
Only God can change things like that.

 

[Heyo]

Mitigating circumstances would make a serial killer, or rapist less guilty?

Nope. Mitigating circumstances don't change the verdict, just the sentence.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yep, according to those numbers US citizens are the most criminal in the world.
(Makes it more understandable how so many criminals end up in high positions in government.)

Yes, I read those statistics also. Justice being what it is. It's very interesting, meaning that the solution for true justice is out of mankind's hands.