Part of being Privileged is not having to think about being Privileged

[Kilgore Trout]

Some years ago, one of my brothers advised me to "consider the source" of any insults I received. To some great extent, I then took his advice and that lead me to the recognition that, not all, but most insults have more to do with who wields them than they have to do with their target.

However, that lesson by itself was not enough for me. I still found myself routinely offended by people -- even people I knew to be idiots.

What has helped me control my emotions even more than that has been the knowledge of what it does to me to take offense at something. I discovered what it does to me through meditation. So, nowadays, when I take offense, I am quick to see what it does to me. And once I see that, the feelings of offense are very likely to evaporate. The technique or approach is not perfect, but I'd guess it's around 80% or 90% effective in my case. But that's just what works for me. I don't know if it will work for others.

Likewise, on all fundamental points. A lesson in perspective, and perception, that leads to other useful insights and behaviors.

 

[Magic Man]

Some years ago, one of my brothers advised me to "consider the source" of any insults I received. To some great extent, I then took his advice and that lead me to the recognition that, not all, but most insults have more to do with who wields them than they have to do with their target.

However, that lesson by itself was not enough for me. I still found myself routinely offended by people -- even people I knew to be idiots.

What has helped me control my emotions even more than that has been the knowledge of what it does to me to take offense at something. I discovered what it does to me through meditation. So, nowadays, when I take offense, I am quick to see what it does to me. And once I see that, the feelings of offense are very likely to evaporate. The technique or approach is not perfect, but I'd guess it's around 80% or 90% effective in my case. But that's just what works for me. I don't know if it will work for others.

It's interesting, though, that you say you still take offense, but then you think about it. It sounded to me more like you guys were saying people shouldn't even take offense in the first place.

Also, I don't think yours is a bad way to go. I do think it's impossible to control your emotions so that you never get offended, but it's possible to control how you react. I also think that sometimes it's reasonable and even right and productive to react negatively to someone's comments that offend you. Sometimes I think doing nothing when someone offends you only makes the problem worse.

 

[Sunstone]

It's interesting, though, that you say you still take offense, but then you think about it. It sounded to me more like you guys were saying people shouldn't even take offense in the first place.

I don't presume to speak for Kilgore, but it seems to me that I have a moment of offense, quickly followed by an insight into what that's doing to me, and then the evaporation of the offense. The whole process takes just seconds, and sometimes it seems almost instantaneous. But maybe that's just me, and other people's mileage varies.

Also, I don't think yours is a bad way to go. I do think it's impossible to control your emotions so that you never get offended, but it's possible to control how you react. I also think that sometimes it's reasonable and even right and productive to react negatively to someone's comments that offend you. Sometimes I think doing nothing when someone offends you only makes the problem worse.

I wonder whether it really is impossible to never be offended? From what little I've read of people like the Buddha (not just people as famous as the Buddha, but read of many lesser known individuals who were somewhat like him), it is indeed possible for some people to never be offended. And I'm fairly sure you don't even need to be "enlightened" for that to be the case with you.

As for whether it's productive to react negatively to someone's comments, I think that goes without a doubt. But I don't believe one needs to take personal offense to come up with a negative criticism or a negative response to someone's comments.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I think we have the potential to exercise much greater control than we normally do over our feelings. It seems to me that, at 56, I'm much more in control of my feelings than I was at, say, 36. So perhaps some learning how to control my feelings has gone on there.

So does that mean we can control to any significant extent whether someone or something offends us? Ideally, I suppose it does. But I would argue greatly against any notion that our ability to control whether something offends us shifts the blame from the perpetrator to the victim. That's just asinine, since it would imply that blame is determined, not by who perpetrates an act, but by how people feel about the act.

PAUSE!
You're 56...and I joked about being in a relationship with you? Feeling a bit ill now to be honest

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't presume to speak for Kilgore, but it seems to me that I have a moment of offense, quickly followed by an insight into what that's doing to me, and then the evaporation of the offense. The whole process takes just seconds, and sometimes it seems almost instantaneous. But maybe that's just me, and other people's mileage varies.

Quite similar, yes. In fact, this practice started years ago when I went through a period of having severe panic attacks. Basically, I learned to pay attention to the actual physical sensations and feelings which precipated a panic attack, which made me quickly be able to dissipate the attack before it kicked in.

I expanded this into paying attention to myself in all circumstances which caused an emotional reaction, not only in terms of physical sensations, but also in terms of what was the exact reason - inside of myself - for the feeling that was occurring. Quickly, you realize that most emotional reactions are actually a cooperative effort on your part - nobody can "make" you feel any way you don't want to, particularly when you understand your part in the reaction and what you're "getting" out of feeling that way.

I wonder whether it really is impossible to never be offended? From what little I've read of people like the Buddha (not just people as famous as the Buddha, but read of many lesser known individuals who were somewhat like him), it is indeed possible for some people to never be offended. And I'm fairly sure you don't even need to be "enlightened" for that to be the case with you.

I think it's like anything else. Any practice becomes easier and more effective the more you do it. Of course, this particular practice is impossible if one is starting with the mindset that their feelings are not under their control and are something that happens to them.

As for whether it's productive to react negatively to someone's comments, I think that goes without a doubt. But I don't believe one needs to take personal offense to come up with a negative criticism or a negative response to someone's comments.

The most productive, measured, and impactful criticisms I've seen were by people who took their own emotions out of the equation - even in a real world situation where insult/offense was directed at them. Some of the most admirable people I've known were the ones who learned to not only contextualize insult to not affect their emotions, but also utilize those situations to connect with the person committing the offense in a way which made them listen and respond, at least in the moment. When you take away someone's power to make you feel small, you can then see them as smaller and approach them from a position of power and influence.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

It's rather presumptuous to assume that all people react and think as you've outlined. This doesn't describe most minority friends I've had throughout my life, but it does describe some who tend towards an attitude of victimization and drama. Some people take a pragamatic approach at life and realize most of how they feel is up to them - other's don't. But don't place your yolk of vicitim-attitude on whole populations of people just because of the color of their skin. That is sick.

As a brown man with thick skin, I co-sign this.

 

[Sunstone]

PAUSE!
You're 56...and I joked about being in a relationship with you? Feeling a bit ill now to be honest

That's...that's horrible!

By the way, how old are you?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

It interests me that the Zen masters would probably agree with Kilgore that being offended is something within our control. Maybe we Westerners just habitually look at it differently.

Being offended is definitely something that's within your control. They're YOUR feelings inside YOUR head.

 

[ignition]

Dayum, you're 56! That is older than both my parents, it does seem weird talking to you on here but I guess the internet kind of hides the awkwardness. I just assume everyone's round about my age when talking to them, makes it easier for me to say what I want to say.

 

[Magic Man]

I don't presume to speak for Kilgore, but it seems to me that I have a moment of offense, quickly followed by an insight into what that's doing to me, and then the evaporation of the offense. The whole process takes just seconds, and sometimes it seems almost instantaneous. But maybe that's just me, and other people's mileage varies.

So, you'd agree there's a difference between being offended and how you react to it?

I wonder whether it really is impossible to never be offended? From what little I've read of people like the Buddha (not just people as famous as the Buddha, but read of many lesser known individuals who were somewhat like him), it is indeed possible for some people to never be offended. And I'm fairly sure you don't even need to be "enlightened" for that to be the case with you.

Oh, it's not impossible for some people to never be offended. But it's more about the person's personality. I don't think never being offended is necessarily even something to strive for.

As for whether it's productive to react negatively to someone's comments, I think that goes without a doubt. But I don't believe one needs to take personal offense to come up with a negative criticism or a negative response to someone's comments.

No, but I'd say it's reasonable to do so, and it doesn't hurt sometimes. Also, why else would you come up with a negative response to someone's comments? If someone calls you a ****** or a ****, wouldn't the whole reason you react negatively to it be because it's offensive?

 

[Magic Man]

Being offended is definitely something that's within your control. They're YOUR feelings inside YOUR head.

Have you ever been in love?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Have you ever been in love?

Actually, no, but I know what you're trying to say, and don't think being in love is any less controllable than being offended is. It's you that's building yourself up to the point of obsession with the person that you're "in love" with.

 

[ignition]

Actually, no

Hahaha flat out honesty. Nice one.

 

[Sunstone]

So, you'd agree there's a difference between being offended and how you react to it?

In my case, yes. But -- and this has just now come to me merely because you've been jogging my memory with your questions -- it seems to me that there might be some things I once took offense at but nowadays do not.

I don't think never being offended is necessarily even something to strive for.

In my case, being offended has negative consequences, and so it's something I see as worth avoiding.

If someone calls you a ****** or a ****, wouldn't the whole reason you react negatively to it be because it's offensive?

I think you might react negatively to it because it was not true and because you thought it important (at least in that one specific context) to get at the truth of the matter. When someone calls me a *******, I don't always think it is worthwhile to address it. But there are circumstances in which I might want to set the record straight.

 

[Sunstone]

Have you ever been in love?

That's a fascinating question! I don't know of any scientific model of human emotions that, so far, adequately explains the role of decision making in whether or not we feel such things as love. I do know, however, that most or all of the feelings most of us seem to associate with that little word "love" are created by neurochemicals. Presumably, whether or not those neurochemicals get released into our blood streams has something to do with our awareness of the situation. But precisely what? I haven't run across a model of emotions that I find satisfactorily answers that question. Have you?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

that's...that's horrible! :d

by the way, how old are you?

24 :d

 

[Father Heathen]

PAUSE!
You're 56...and I joked about being in a relationship with you? Feeling a bit ill now to be honest

Dayum, you're 56! That is older than both my parents, it does seem weird talking to you on here but I guess the internet kind of hides the awkwardness. I just assume everyone's round about my age when talking to them, makes it easier for me to say what I want to say.

Wow..

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Wow..

problem?

 

[Magic Man]

Actually, no, but I know what you're trying to say, and don't think being in love is any less controllable than being offended is. It's you that's building yourself up to the point of obsession with the person that you're "in love" with.

Well, you can't control falling in love, just like you can't control other feelings/emotions. You can control how you react to them, though.

 

[Magic Man]

In my case, yes. But -- and this has just now come to me merely because you've been jogging my memory with your questions -- it seems to me that there might be some things I once took offense at but nowadays do not.

Sure, I'm sure that happens with a lot of people.

In my case, being offended has negative consequences, and so it's something I see as worth avoiding.

What I'm saying is it's OK to be annoyed or angry with stupid things people say that promote or perpetuate racism/sexism and other bigotry. It's a good reaction to that kind of thing. I'd rather people be offended by those things than just take them in stride and let them go.

I think you might react negatively to it because it was not true and because you thought it important (at least in that one specific context) to get at the truth of the matter. When someone calls me a *******, I don't always think it is worthwhile to address it. But there are circumstances in which I might want to set the record straight.

Right, but do you really not react negatively because you're annoyed or a little angry? Is it really just a matter of cold calculation? And is that necessarily always better than reacting out of annoyance?