• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Pascal's Wage Reloaded.

firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
ratiocinator said:
No. I didn't say they were, I said that they seem to be.

superstition "Excessively credulous belief in and reverence for the supernatural."
Click to expand...

What you said is that "If they were, as they seem to be". That is a hypothetical based on your already existing epistemic truth.

If its a believer in these things, they won't look so "superstitious". If it seems like that to you, you already have your own truths.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ChristineM said:
Read A LOT
Fixed
Click to expand...
upload_2021-10-11_10-24-51.png


We are lucky that he did not say "Let's eat Grandma!"
 
ratiocinator

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
firedragon said:
What you said is that "If they were, as they seem to be". That is a hypothetical based on your already existing epistemic truth.
Click to expand...

It's a hypothetical based on the what seems to be the case to me. It is not an assertion that they are all like that, otherwise, that's what I'd have said - something more like "No because all religions are just superstitions."
firedragon said:
If its a believer in these things, they won't look so "superstitious".
Click to expand...

Probably not.
firedragon said:
If it seems like that to you, you already have your own truths.
Click to expand...

I already have an impression based on the fact that I have yet to see any rational reason to take any religion seriously, hence they seem like excessively credulous beliefs in and reverence for the supernatural (god or gods).

It wasn't a complicated phrase.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I'll let you work on that. Remember I used the word "just." Remember, too, that we acknowledge that humans cannot be perfect. Then figure in "infinite punishment."

It's not hard.
Click to expand...

Its not that hard. Its an argument from emotion you are making, not an internal criticism. For that you need to embrace your own moral truth which is not objective. So how do you make an external criticism?
 
Guitar's Cry

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
I suggest renaming this to "The Stockholm Syndrome Wager" since it's a much better way to describe a deity capable of creating a Universe but can't figure out how to get Its creation to love It without threatening torture on them for eternity.

Personally, I'd rather skip the Heaven and Hell dichotomy most people think of and haunt some lonely forest somewhere so I can finally have sexy goth folks chasing me around in the woods.
 
KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Link said:
(1) Seek to to perfect your reading comprehension skills, take logic classes, learn to understand text, and learn how the mechanisms of how expressions work, etc, very important to contextualize, hyperbola, learn some statements as absolutes can be just majority, things like that.

(2) Read ALOT.

(3) Reflect over things yourself, try to come up with your own arguments, not just rely on others.

(4) Gives holy books many chances, try to solve their so called problems, and if some of them are unsolvable, keep searching a holy book out there without problems.

(5) Charitable reading, assume the best and never the worse.

(6) Tell yourself not to be stubborn and research really to find truth

(7) Don't follow what you don't know (if you mix falsehood with truth, knowledge of truth becomes hard since you believe in falsehood just as strong).

(8) Accept proofs when shown and search it, talk to people.

(9) Try to gain mystic experiences from all sorts of religions out there, heck even use the damn misguided Jinn if you need to get started to see truth!

(10) Devote your life to it and make it a priority, If you seek God, and don't find, you lose hardly anything if anything at all compared to losing out if he exists.

Lastly living a life like this, even no truth, no God, it's honorable to have searched and meaningful in itself. You may even have fun and meaning doing it. (I added this part to his argument)
Click to expand...
Point 5 contradicts point 1.
If you are genuine about objective research, you never assume anything.

Also love the irony of (3), you have just spent pages attempting to defend and promote Pascal's argument.

(4) All holy books have "problems", so you advise dismissing all religions.

(7) Pascal states that god is unknowable, therefore you are advising against following god.

(8) I only accept that which is supported by evidence or rational argument. I don't simply accept things just because snooze tells me about it. That would be ridiculous.

(9) is question begging (and contradics other points). You are assuming there are "mystical experiences" and that Jinn exist. If you are really seeking the truth, you can't pre-assume that one religion is true.
 
KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Link said:
But given the gamble, whatever time lost, is not worth forever time of pain and forever time of heaven. So you lose time, but it's worth the gamble and the right way to gamble.
Click to expand...
Again, you are starting with the assumption that heaven and hell exist. Basically, you are just trying to retro-fit an argument to support your existing belief.
 
KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Link said:
50/50 you would have to gamble God but even let's say, I say 99% chance no God and hell don't exist, 1% chance God and heaven and hell all exist, because of the time, the time being forever, the gamble still works in the favor of betting on God and seeking a life of searching for truth.
Click to expand...
Even if it was 50/50, if I genuinely thought there was no god, what then?
(Remember that people genuinely believe stuff that is far less likely).
 
KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Link said:
So in this case, we have too use our toolkit and wager:

(1)Is it reasonable God will torture us forever for trying to find potentially what his guidance is on earth and he put none and get's wrathful at wasting time.
(2) Or more reasonable if God gave us guidance on earth and we ignored and didn't seek to find it, there is potential of God's wrath (at least this is plausible)

You have to take a leap of faith in this case, but I'm 100% sure myself one can't be true.
Click to expand...
Why do you think it is reasonable that god tortures people for eternity for not being convinced by no evidence and poor arguments?
Why do you think it is reasonable for god to punish people for following a religion they genuinely believe to be true?
Do you think it is at all merciful or just to punish people for either of the above?
 
KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
firedragon said:
Do you have any evidence to prove that all religions are just superstitions?
Click to expand...
All but one must be mere superstition.
There is no evidence for any one of them being true.
Therefore it is reasonable to assume they are all just superstitions until evidence to the contrary is presented.

What is your reasoning for believing that one of them is not just superstition?
 
KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Link said:
Forever is a long time
Click to expand...
Have you ever stopped to think about what eternal life would actually be like?
It is an appalling prospect. Imagine having done everything that there is to do, and then doing them all again a billion times. You still have forever left to fill.
It would drive anyone insane. You'd be begging for an end to it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top