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Pascal's Wage Reloaded.

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
If god is "most merciful", he could not punish people at all, for anything.
If he is "most just", he could not impose infinite punishment for finite crimes, especially if those crimes were beyond their control.

"Mercy" is the act of punishing people less than they deserve. "Justice" is punishing people to the full extent they deserve. So "most just" and "most merciful" are mutually incompatible. He cannot be both. Therefore any god that is described as "most just" and "most merciful" cannot exist.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
If its a believer in these things, they won't look so "superstitious".
Believers in one religion consider all other religions to be superstition.
If they believe all the others are superstitions, why can't their own also be superstition?
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Mercy is punishing people less than they deserve.
"Most merciful" means that not only can he not be any more merciful, but no one else can be more merciful.
So, if he punished anyone for anything, he could be more merciful.
Therefore he cannot punish anyone for anything.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Mercy is punishing people less than they deserve.
"Most merciful" means that not only can he not be any more merciful, but no one else can be more merciful.
So, if he punished anyone for anything, he could be more merciful.
Therefore he cannot punish anyone for anything.

Why?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Because it addresses your claim that believers don't consider their belief to be superstition.

Believers dont consider their belief to be superstition. Its like saying "a triangle has three sides". You dont need to say that.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Its not that hard. Its an argument from emotion you are making, not an internal criticism. For that you need to embrace your own moral truth which is not objective. So how do you make an external criticism?
The amount of time spent arguing about subjective and objective truths and values tires me out.

For the record, I am what is know as a "human being." I can never be totally objective, nor would I wish to be, because that would be losing an essential part of myself, which I do not wish to lose.

The fact that I do not believe in anybody's God, not yours, not that of the Christians nor Hindus nor anyone else's is the result of my seeing precisely zero that would argue for the existence of any such thing -- and especially not the ones that have been described to me.

In fact, it is a veritable wonder to me that so many believers actually have access to all of the same information -- which argues against their deities -- that I do, but manage somehow to quietly bury them.

It's kind of like the magician Doug Henning and his "Natural Law Party," who totally believed in "yogic flying" -- despite the fact that not one of them ever managed more than a foot or so in any direction when they hopped (rather than "flew"). Why let observation get in the way of a longed-for belief, eh?
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Believers dont consider their belief to be superstition. Its like saying "a triangle has three sides". You dont need to say that.
Poor analogy. Even by your standards, most believers beliefs are just superstition even if they genuinely believe they aren't, whereas all triangles can only have three sides.

Unless you are saying that some triangles are actually circles who believe they are triangles? I guess that would work.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Poor analogy. Even by your standards, most believers beliefs are just superstition even if they genuinely believe they aren't, whereas all triangles can only have three sides.

Unless you are saying that some triangles are actually circles who believe they are triangles? I guess that would work.

Triangles only have three sides. ;)
 
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