• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Pascal's Wage Reloaded.

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No. The last time you attempted an answer, was this:-


Which completely ignores the point I just made.

For all you know there is no way to know, but for all you know there is a way. You bet on the latter and attempt to find it because there would be consequences on not finding it possibly. Until you rule it out then you take it seriously.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The reason you take it seriously is because of the wager comparing finite pleasures/pain to infinite pleasures/pain.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Actually, it plays with math. The Math choice, is to fear God.
Only if you assume God, and then assume it has some value that is set by religious tradition. So no credible math, just speculation of "what if". Atheists don't make these assumptions, so no actual math.

The emotional one enticed by deception and what we might like, is to bet on this world.
Religions are of this world, hate to break it to you. Your thinking and conclusions are of this world. You can't escape this world by imagining there is some other world while IN this world.

But math wise, it's shown we should not bet on life of pleasure over seeking God.
I suggest you find pleasure in your religious belief.

But, if you are correct and you deny pleasure, should I take it you don't find pleasure in your religious belief and experience?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There can be pleasure which I did argue in searching for truth and religion, but the gambler (from this point of view) - for all he knows it's displeasure.

I believe searching and striving to find God and finding him is the most pleasurable thing.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
The reason you take it seriously is because of the wager comparing finite pleasures/pain to infinite pleasures/pain.
Assuming all this is true, or at least plausible. To objective minds that aren't under pressure from religious dogma there is no reason to assume these concepts of heaven/hell have any credibility. At face value they are absurd and contrary to the peace and love that religions are supposed to teach and advocate. Torturing a soul for eternity just because the mind of that soul wasn't convinced an ideas was true is quite extreme and criminal. Would you do that to people like me?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
There can be pleasure which I did argue in searching for truth and religion, but the gambler (from this point of view) - for all he knows it's displeasure.

I believe searching and striving to find God and finding him is the most pleasurable thing.
So you could be on the right or wrong side of God without really knowing it, and be cast into hell because of a minor human error. Would that be justified?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Assuming all this is true, or at least plausible. To objective minds that aren't under pressure from religious dogma there is no reason to assume these concepts of heaven/hell have any credibility. At face value they are absurd and contrary to the peace and love that religions are supposed to teach and advocate. Torturing a soul for eternity just because the mind of that soul wasn't convinced an ideas was true is quite extreme and criminal. Would you do that to people like me?

The assumption is not they have credibility, is for all you know they might. I already provided plausible reasons for hellfire for avoiding God's guidance or rejecting it from my viewpoint. But it's irrelevant to the argument the reasons I provided. Hell and it's proof is not needed. Although I believe hell has proof.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So you could be on the right or wrong side of God without really knowing it, and be cast into hell because of a minor human error. Would that be justified?

Whether it's minor or big, I'm saying the person doesn't know when betting. If he is sure hell won't come out for his disbelief, he can wager this temporary useless life of this world.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Whether it's minor or big, I'm saying the person doesn't know when betting. If he is sure hell won't come out for his disbelief, he can wager this temporary useless life of this world.
So no amount of math you can do will assure you that you are bound for heaven.

That's got to be stressful.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
The assumption is not they have credibility, is for all you know they might.
I have no reason to assume they are correct, and that's because the concepts have no credibility.

I already provided plausible reasons for hellfire for avoiding God's guidance or rejecting it from my viewpoint. But it's irrelevant to the argument the reasons I provided. Hell and it's proof is not needed. Although I believe hell has proof.
It's more plausible for those who assume the concepts are correct than those of us who find them absurd and contrary to the basic morals of human conduct.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It's more plausible to those who believe in God, but even if 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000001% plausibility (hard Atheist), mathematically, it's more rational to wager God/next world and search to find God and guidance if he sent any.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The argument fails only if 100% sure hell is not a possible consequence of one's path.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
It's more plausible to those who believe in God, but even if 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000001% plausibility (hard Atheist), mathematically, it's more rational to wager God/next world and search to find God and guidance if he sent any.
That's a long shot that no sane person would invest anything of value. Like time. Freedom. Intellectual autonomy.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That's a long shot that no sane person would invest anything of value. Like time. Freedom. Intellectual autonomy.

Whether a long shot or not or you just conjecture about how much of long shot it is, mathematically, unless 100% sure no hell for path you taking, search the path for heaven.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Temporary pleasure even if you sacrificed a million years of pleasure will be worth heaven forever, but if no heaven or hell, still never worth the risk of hell, so it was worth either way, not to risk hell. Life ends, next does not.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Whether a long shot or not or you just conjecture about how much of long shot it is, mathematically, unless 100% sure no hell for path you taking, search the path for heaven.
That Pascal devised a wager suggests he wasn't all that convinced it was true. If you have to hedge bets, then you are not very confident.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So far just conjecture by people in response and more emotional hating the argument. Some people brought up intellectual points, but I think I've defended the argument far enough.
 
Top