Paths - Which Are You On?

[nPeace]

All of the above is right. An immortal soul cannot does not die, so as an immortal soul, with a mortal body, Jesus simply let his mortal body be torn from him and He ascended to heaven where His soul took on a spiritual body.

So what was the sacrifice, since all physical bodies die and all physical bodies have immortal souls that go to heaven?

No, that belief is the truth. ALL human souls are immortal, not only the soul of Jesus.

Yes, from the Bible, but also according to my Baha'i beliefs.

Sorry. I do not mix truth with lies. I do not believe in your Bahaullah, or Bahai beliefs. So since nowhere in the Bible is that teaching found, asking me what you believe makes no sense.
Jesus died in the flesh, and was resurrected by God, as an immortal spirit, according to the Bible.

If Jesus is an immortal soul now, then what was he before he came to earth, and how does an immortal soul put on immortality?
This makes sense to you?

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry. I do not mix truth with lies. I do not believe in your Bahaullah, or Bahai beliefs. So since nowhere in the Bible is that teaching found, asking me what you believe makes no sense.
Jesus died in the flesh, and was resurrected by God, as an immortal spirit, according to the Bible.

This is not about my Baha'i beliefs. ALL this is about interpretation of he Bible, how you interpret that Bible. You interpret it one way, I interpret it another way.

Christians do not all believe what you do, so that demonstrates what I am saying, that different people interpret the Bible differently. Most Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead in a glorified physical body, they do not believe that Jesus was resurrected as an immortal spirit.

What people believe is all about how they interpret the Bible.

If Jesus is an immortal soul now, then what was he before he came to earth, and how does an immortal soul put on immortality?
This makes sense to you?

The soul of Jesus was preexistent in heaven before God sent it to earth. When God sent His soul to earth His soul came into being at the time of conception and then after His time in the womb of Mary the physical body of Jesus was born of Mary.

An immortal soul does not PUT ON immortality. All physical bodies are mortal and all souls are immortal, not only the soul and body of Jesus.

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There are no physical bodies in heaven so the body of Jesus does not live in heaven. Jesus is in heaven with a spiritual body, not a physical body.

The physical body of Jesus was not resurrected and changed from a corruptible body into an incorruptible and immortal body because a physical body cannot be changed into a spiritual body that will never die.

Paul said that there are two different kinds of bodies:

--- The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
--- For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of God is in Heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (Heaven), which will last forever. Our physical bodies will die and we will be raised (resurrected) as spiritual bodies that will be suited to go to Heaven and last forever.

1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

 

[nPeace]

This is not about my Baha'i beliefs. ALL this is about interpretation of he Bible, how you interpret that Bible. You interpret it one way, I interpret it another way.

Christians do not all believe what you do, so that demonstrates what I am saying, that different people interpret the Bible differently. Most Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead in a glorified physical body, they do not believe that Jesus was resurrected as an immortal spirit.

What people believe is all about how they interpret the Bible.

If this is what you believe, why are you so passionate about posting your interpretation... or should I say Bahaullah's interpretation.
Oh. He is a messenger of God, so he does not need interpretation. His word is from God, right?
Everyone else interprets, but Bahaullah, right?
The more I listen to you Trailblazer, the more anti-Christ Bahai looks.

If it's just about interpretation, there is no truth, but that is not the case, according to Jesus and his followers.

The soul of Jesus was preexistent in heaven before God sent it to earth. When God sent His soul to earth His soul came into being at the time of conception and then after His time in the womb of Mary the physical body of Jesus was born of Mary.

An immortal soul does not PUT ON immortality. All physical bodies are mortal and all souls are immortal, not only the soul and body of Jesus.

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
There are no physical bodies in heaven so the body of Jesus does not live in heaven. Jesus is in heaven with a spiritual body, not a physical body.

The physical body of Jesus was not resurrected and changed from a corruptible body into an incorruptible and immortal body because a physical body cannot be changed into a spiritual body that will never die.

Paul said that there are two different kinds of bodies:

--- The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
--- For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of God is in Heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (Heaven), which will last forever. Our physical bodies will die and we will be raised (resurrected) as spiritual bodies that will be suited to go to Heaven and last forever.

1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

The soul of Jesus was preexistent in heaven before God sent it to earth.
What does that mean? Jesus' soul existed in heaven.

When God sent His soul to earth His soul came into being at the time of conception
God sent Jesus' already existing soul to earth, and his already existing soul came into existence. ....

 

[Trailblazer]

If this is what you believe, why are you so passionate about posting your interpretation... or should I say Bahaullah's interpretation.

Who said I was passionate? I was just responding to your questions.

Oh. He is a messenger of God, so he does not need interpretation. His word is from God, right?
Everyone else interprets, but Bahaullah, right?

That is a straw man. Baha'u'llah wrote what He wrote and I interpreted it.
I also interpret the Bible all by myself.

If it's just about interpretation, there is no truth, but that is not the case, according to Jesus and his followers.

That is also a straw man. I never said it was not about truth. I only ever said that people come to different conclusions about the truth because they interpret the Bible differently.

The soul of Jesus was preexistent in heaven before God sent it to earth.
What does that mean? Jesus' soul existed in heaven.

It means what it says. Jesus' soul existed in heaven before God sent it to earth.

When God sent His soul to earth His soul came into being at the time of conception
God sent Jesus' already existing soul to earth, and his already existing soul came into existence. ....

Sorry, I worded that incorrectly. The soul of Jesus already existed and it united with His body at the moment of conception.

 

[osgart]

I chose the path of the virtues. The language of virtues speaks volumes to me about how wonderful life could be. Take honor and the loyalties that spring from honor. If everyone had honor and honorable relationships there would be no cheating, mistrust, nor any degrading behaviour.

Within the virtues is substance of being and eternal fulfillment. Outside of that is cheapness.

It really doesn't matter what someone's beliefs are. What matters is the qualities of virtues.

I don't see any religion that emphasizes the virtues. The glory of life is in them. Much is made of vices and hedonism but that glory is a pile of puke. Vanity is as dull as it gets.

Without virtues all one has is vanity, arrogance, lust and hate. Genuine love beats all those other loves. With genuine love we seek to make others better. The world loves competition and hedonism.

I'm not out to change anyone though. I want all people to be their truest version of themselves. If they choose virtues then that's beautiful. If they choose vice, and cheapness so be it.

I'm very fortunate to have known genuine love though. I'd be lost in the world striving in desperation if I hadn't known love from others.

 

[Sheldon]

no one has proof or certian knowledge of what happens when you die.

While I understand (I think) what you mean, we actually have objective evidence to explain what does happen when you die, what we "don't know" seems to be the gap that many religions want to insert their deity of choice into.

There is a very thorough explanation <HERE>

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't see any religion that emphasizes the virtues.

The Baha'i Faith emphasizes the virtues:

“Be pure, O people of God, be pure; be righteous, be righteous…. Say: O people of God! That which can ensure the victory of Him Who is the Eternal Truth, His hosts and helpers on earth, have been set down in the sacred Books and Scriptures, and are as clear and manifest as the sun. These hosts are such righteous deeds, such conduct and character, as are acceptable in His sight. Whoso ariseth, in this Day, to aid Our Cause, and summoneth to his assistance the hosts of a praiseworthy character and upright conduct, the influence flowing from such an action will, most certainly, be diffused throughout the whole world.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 287

“The third Taráz concerneth good character. A good character is, verily, the best mantle for men from God. With it He adorneth the temples of His loved ones. By My life! The light of a good character surpasseth the light of the sun and the radiance thereof. Whoso attaineth unto it is accounted as a jewel among men. The glory and the upliftment of the world must needs depend upon it. A goodly character is a means whereby men are guided to the Straight Path and are led to the Great Announcement. Well is it with him who is adorned with the saintly attributes and character of the Concourse on High.” Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 36

 

[osgart]

The Baha'i Faith emphasizes the virtues:

“Be pure, O people of God, be pure; be righteous, be righteous…. Say: O people of God! That which can ensure the victory of Him Who is the Eternal Truth, His hosts and helpers on earth, have been set down in the sacred Books and Scriptures, and are as clear and manifest as the sun. These hosts are such righteous deeds, such conduct and character, as are acceptable in His sight. Whoso ariseth, in this Day, to aid Our Cause, and summoneth to his assistance the hosts of a praiseworthy character and upright conduct, the influence flowing from such an action will, most certainly, be diffused throughout the whole world.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 287

“The third Taráz concerneth good character. A good character is, verily, the best mantle for men from God. With it He adorneth the temples of His loved ones. By My life! The light of a good character surpasseth the light of the sun and the radiance thereof. Whoso attaineth unto it is accounted as a jewel among men. The glory and the upliftment of the world must needs depend upon it. A goodly character is a means whereby men are guided to the Straight Path and are led to the Great Announcement. Well is it with him who is adorned with the saintly attributes and character of the Concourse on High.” Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 36

Hi Trailblazer! I don't buy into Abrahamic God. I do enjoy your sayings though. They are worth reading.

For me to study virtues is a lot like listing the attributes of a true God. If I find such a God or beings at the end of the road, I would be pleasantly shocked.

There's so many problems with Abrahamic God I don't even know where to begin.

Perhaps Baha'u'llah should have not relied on the Abrahamic God. He would have had a powerful religion otherwise.

The Bible and Quran are definitely studies into human nature and in that way their mythology has interesting wisdom. Perhaps much of it unintended.

Definitely if God wants to be known then God should explain His/her character. The Bible explains nothing and goes ahead with woeful inadequate actions and rules without much explanation of such actions and rules.

Declaring virtue is one thing, demonstrating it is another. Abrahamic God is obsessed with infidels, and destroying non believers. A true God of virtues wouldn't waste such time.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hi Trailblazer! I don't buy into Abrahamic God. I do enjoy your sayings though. They are worth reading.

Thanks.

For me to study virtues is a lot like listing the attributes of a true God. If I find such a God or beings at the end of the road, I would be pleasantly shocked.

I am sure you will find God and other beings at the end of the road, which is really a whole new beginning.

There's so many problems with Abrahamic God I don't even know where to begin.

Perhaps Baha'u'llah should have not relied on the Abrahamic God. He would have had a powerful religion otherwise.

Maybe you can explain to me the problems with the Abrahamic God.
I also have issues with that God so I can explain mine after you explain yours.

I had a hard day so I can barely type... I have to eat dinner and go to bed now but I will look for your response tomorrow.

 

[osgart]

Thanks.

I am sure you will find God and other beings at the end of the road, which is really a whole new beginning.

Maybe you can explain to me the problems with the Abrahamic God.
I also have issues with that God so I can explain mine after you explain yours.

I had a hard day so I can barely type... I have to eat dinner and go to bed now but I will look for your response tomorrow.

Numbers 31:17,18. This command is total moral failure.

I cannot justify it whatsoever.

People only read the pretty sayings and ignore the rest.

 

[viole]

Um. Every reasonable person know that promiscuity is bad for society.
Casual sex can impact your physical and emotional health in ways that you may not suspect
Can promiscuity threaten your longevity? The short answer is yes. Having a large number of sexual partners has been linked to poor sexual health and decreased longevity. Why? The more sexual partners you have, the greater your risk for sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) like HIV/AIDS and other life-threatening conditions like prostate cancer, cervical cancer, and oral cancer.

"Promiscuity is one example of a class of high-risk behaviors,” says Deirdre Lee Fitzgerald, PhD, assistant professor of psychology at Eastern Connecticut State University in Willimantic. “It is comparable to, and may coincide with, behaviors such as heavy drinking, gambling, and other thrill-seeking behaviors like driving too fast."
I guess some people prefer what's bad for us.

As I said. Boring. As they say, no risk no fun.
But what do you mean? No vodka, neither cigars either in heaven, or whatever? No black metal, nor first person shooter video games?

horrible. And you are surprised I prefer destruction?

What's with this whole heaven thing!!!

what Christians believe. Are you going to sue them?

Really?
Then why not call up the science community, and tell them they should consider suing every science journal, encyclopedia, and other literature, that use the phrase "scientists believed" or "scientists once believed, or thought".

Spoiler: Scientists beliefs based on evidence

Archaeological excavations in the Qafzeh Cave in the mountain found human remains, whose estimated age is 100,000 years old. The human skeletons were associated with red ochre which was found only alongside the bones, suggesting that the burials were symbolic in nature. Previous to this discovery, scientists believed that human symbolic reasoning evolved much later, about 50,000 years ago.

Carcinisation is believed to have occurred independently in at least five groups of decapod crustaceans:
King crabs, which most scientists believe evolved from hermit crab ancestors First appearance: Late Cenozoic

Emission theory of vision – the belief that vision is caused by rays emanating from the eyes was superseded by the intro-mission approach and more complex theories of vision

The moon is much older than some scientists believe, a research team now reports.

Spinosaurus is known to have eaten fish, and most scientists believe that it hunted both terrestrial and aquatic prey. Evidence suggests that it was highly semiaquatic, and lived both on land and in water much like modern crocodilians do

Some scientists believed that modern ungulates were descended from an evolutionary grade of mammals known as the condylarths
These animals had unusual triangular teeth very similar to those of primitive cetaceans. This is why scientists long believed that cetaceans evolved from a form of mesonychid. Today, many scientists believe cetaceans evolved from the same stock that gave rise to hippopotamuses.

This is the third time I have done this, and I always get tired after posting 0.1%.

What a way to discredit science. You mean all these superseded theories in science were without evidence.

Well you can't expect them to say the science that became obsolete, can you.

Well, of course, that is what science is about. When new evidence becomes available, things can change, improved, even replaced.

and it works. Wanna see how? Try to post back to me using no computer, no internet, no optical fibers, no quantum mechanics, no transistors, etc….. and just use your Jehovah. By praying, for instance.

Let’s see how successful you’ll be.

No immoral sex.

Immoral sex? Lol. I told you your whatever eternal life is gonna be eternal boredom.

But why not? Can you get Aids in Heaven, or whatever, too?

That's your belief. It is a false claim of Atheists, who ignore the evidence.

I think it is quite obvious. And the majority of theists agree with me. If they didn’t, they would all believe in your Jehovah. Which they don ‘t.

I don't buy that claim. Some can't even tell the difference between snake oil and water.

And some believe God looks like an elephant. So much for theists consistency. If scientists disagreed by one millionth of the huge inconsistencies theists present to us, you would have already died laughing at us a long time ago. I mean, not even Christians agree on the most basic facts surrounding their faith.

Some yes. In fact many, yes.
I love the truth. Living forever is secondary... or third... or could be forth... or...
Living the truth brings me great joy and satisfaction.
Problems are a reality of life, but they don't rob me of the joy of Jehovah.
You have to live it, to know what it's like. Otherwise, all you will see is all you know... which is

You said it. It brings you joy and satisfaction. What other motivation would there be to believe it?

ciao

- viole








.

 

[Trailblazer]

Numbers 31:17,18. This command is total moral failure.

I cannot justify it whatsoever.

People only read the pretty sayings and ignore the rest.

Do you really believe that God did everything that the writers of the Old Testament said God did? Thinking logically, how would they know what God did? The 'unnamed' men who wrote the OT were not even prophets who and the scholarly consensus is that Moses did not write the Old Testament.

I believe that most of the OT is anthropomorphism of God - God said this, God did this -- it is total blarney. I would never use the Bible as a basis for what I believe about God because the Bible was written by men. I only fully trust what Baha'u'llah wrote about God because I believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation (Messenger) of God so He actually got His information about God from God. That is how my logical mind works.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

When I said I don't like the Abrahamic God, the reason is because of all the suffering and death in this world, particularly animal suffering and death, but suffering is a mystery. So the emotional part of my brain is angry at God and wonders how God could be loving, given all the suffering in the world, and another part of my brain believes what Baha'u'llah wrote about God, that God is loving, the most compassionate, the most merciful. I actually believe the latter is the case and that my emotions are not reality.

 

[osgart]

Do you really believe that God did everything that the writers of the Old Testament said God did? Thinking logically, how would they know what God did? The 'unnamed' men who wrote the OT were not even prophets who and the scholarly consensus is that Moses did not write the Old Testament.

I believe that most of the OT is anthropomorphism of God - God said this, God did this -- it is total blarney. I would never use the Bible as a basis for what I believe about God because the Bible was written by men. I only fully trust what Baha'u'llah wrote about God because I believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation (Messenger) of God so He actually got His information about God from God. That is how my logical mind works.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

When I said I don't like the Abrahamic God, the reason is because of all the suffering and death in this world, particularly animal suffering and death, but suffering is a mystery. So the emotional part of my brain is angry at God and wonders how God could be loving, given all the suffering in the world, and another part of my brain believes what Baha'u'llah wrote about God, that God is loving, the most compassionate, the most merciful. I actually believe the latter is the case and that my emotions are not reality.

How would we know of the Abrahamic God, but only by Scriptures? How would we else know about Jesus?

I suppose one could take the Bible and Quran as man fabricated accounts that do not tell the true story of these characters and lives. If you do that then there's nothing to go on to tell you of them.

I'm starting to think Baha'i religion is separate from the Abrahamic religions. And perhaps wants to tell an entirely different story.

I could never understand suffering being reconciled with a supreme God.

 

[Trailblazer]

How would we know of the Abrahamic God, but only by Scriptures? How would we else know about Jesus?

I suppose one could take the Bible and Quran as man fabricated accounts that do not tell the true story of these characters and lives. If you do that then there's nothing to go on to tell you of them.

I was not saying that we cannot know ANYTHING bout God from the Bible, I was only saying that much of the OT is anthropomorphic so the alleged accounts of what God did are not necessarily what God did. God is not a man who does things. God wills things to happen, but there is no reason to believe that God willed all the things that are attributed to Him in the OT. I cannot say why all that was written because I do not know why. From a Baha'i perspective maybe that is what people needed to hear back in those days in order to fear God, but we are no longer living in those days so we do not need to hear those stories anymore.

I'm starting to think Baha'i religion is separate from the Abrahamic religions. And perhaps wants to tell an entirely different story.

The Baha'i Faith is a whole new religion, separate from the previous Abrahamic religions. This is an entirely new age and everything is different. The cycle of religion that began with Adam, the Adamic Cycle, ended with Muhammad, who was the Seal of the Prophets, since He sealed off the Prophetic Cycle of religion. We are now living in the Age of Fulfillment, the age in which all the prophecies have been or will be fulfilled, called the Baha'i Cycle, since it was ushered in by the Bab and Baha'u'llah. This is a unique Day of God because it is the beginning of a whole new religious cycle, one that will last for no less than 500,000 years.

“It is evident that every age in which a Manifestation of God hath lived is divinely ordained, and may, in a sense, be characterized as God’s appointed Day. This Day, however, is unique, and is to be distinguished from those that have preceded it. The designation “Seal of the Prophets” fully revealeth its high station. The Prophetic Cycle hath, verily, ended. The Eternal Truth is now come. He hath lifted up the Ensign of Power, and is now shedding upon the world the unclouded splendor of His Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 60

I could never understand suffering being reconciled with a supreme God.

I have a difficult time understanding suffering but the only reason I can reconcile it to a loving God is knowing that the suffering serves a purpose, to hone our characters and prepare us for the next life in the spiritual world. If there was no life to come suffering in this world would be pointless.

 

[osgart]

I was not saying that we cannot know ANYTHING bout God from the Bible, I was only saying that much of the OT is anthropomorphic so the alleged accounts of what God did are not necessarily what God did. God is not a man who does things. God wills things to happen, but there is no reason to believe that God willed all the things that are attributed to Him in the OT. I cannot say why all that was written because I do not know why. From a Baha'i perspective maybe that is what people needed to hear back in those days in order to fear God, but we are no longer living in those days so we do not need to hear those stories anymore.

The Baha'i Faith is a whole new religion, separate from the previous Abrahamic religions. This is an entirely new age and everything is different. The cycle of religion that began with Adam, the Adamic Cycle, ended with Muhammad, who was the Seal of the Prophets, since He sealed off the Prophetic Cycle of religion. We are now living in the Age of Fulfillment, the age in which all the prophecies have been or will be fulfilled, called the Baha'i Cycle, since it was ushered in by the Bab and Baha'u'llah. This is a unique Day of God because it is the beginning of a whole new religious cycle, one that will last for no less than 500,000 years.

“It is evident that every age in which a Manifestation of God hath lived is divinely ordained, and may, in a sense, be characterized as God’s appointed Day. This Day, however, is unique, and is to be distinguished from those that have preceded it. The designation “Seal of the Prophets” fully revealeth its high station. The Prophetic Cycle hath, verily, ended. The Eternal Truth is now come. He hath lifted up the Ensign of Power, and is now shedding upon the world the unclouded splendor of His Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 60

I have a difficult time understanding suffering but the only reason I can reconcile it to a loving God is knowing that the suffering serves a purpose, to hone our characters and prepare us for the next life in the spiritual world. If there was no life to come suffering in this world would be pointless.

I don't trust the Bible. Nor do I believe the stories in it. People have done a lot to make it a compelling story, but at the end of the day it's mythology, and not a reliable moral guide book.

People often see what they want to see, and attribute meaning to things in the book that are not even there.

The only compelling arguments for a transcendent reality I found is the moral argument, and transcendental argument. But I think they fail too.

The book of nature is far from perfect, and moral. Nature is indifferent to the sufferings of people, and other animals. So I conclude that God is a wishful thinking concept. Plus I've never witnessed a supernatural event.

I'm still searching for a divine reason for living creatures to be subject to such a cruel natural world.
. I struggle to see why an enormously vast void of violent galaxies implies anything of a God.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't trust the Bible. Nor do I believe the stories in it. People have done a lot to make it a compelling story, but at the end of the day it's mythology, and not a reliable moral guide book.

People often see what they want to see, and attribute meaning to things in the book that are not even there.

I fully agree.

The book of nature is far from perfect, and moral. Nature is indifferent to the sufferings of people, and other animals. So I conclude that God is a wishful thinking concept.

I fully agree, but I don't know how God fits in with all of this, except that He created it and allows it, which does not say much for His mercy and compassion... I am sorry, I just cannot make that work logically, I mean I cannot just 'believe' that God is merciful and compassionate just because it is written in a Book of scriptures, despite all the suffering in this world.

I can hardly believe that I finally got my husband to see my point of view last night because he has never seen it before. He had to see me in a state of absolute torment to understand, and realize that God is doing nothing to remove my torment. They way he usually talks you would think he is God's attorney.

I'm still searching for a divine reason for living creatures to be subject to such a cruel natural world.

I'm still searching too but I don't think I will ever find an answer.

 

[osgart]

I fully agree.

I fully agree, but I don't know how God fits in with all of this, except that He created it and allows it, which does not say much for His mercy and compassion... I am sorry, I just cannot make that work logically, I mean I cannot just 'believe' that God is merciful and compassionate just because it is written in a Book of scriptures, despite all the suffering in this world.

I can hardly believe that I finally got my husband to see my point of view last night because he has never seen it before. He had to see me in a state of absolute torment to understand, and realize that God is doing nothing to remove my torment. They way he usually talks you would think he is God's attorney.

I'm still searching too but I don't think I will ever find an answer.

That's a very thoughtful response. Thankyou!

I really never wanted to let go of God. For me though I can't get mad at what I don't believe is there.

Sometimes I consider the source of reality is more impersonal, or very limited in power.

It's exciting to believe in God. I used to when I was younger before I knew just how bad the suffering gets in the world.

I never understood why belief in God is a requirement of these religions. I have believed in lots of things that weren't true. Theist philosophers do a lot of mental gymnastics to come up with foolproof arguments for the existence of God.

I refuse to torture myself over it. I just try to live the best I can with the cards I've been dealt. If there is a good reason for God to allow this suffering then I'm sure God won't blame me for not knowing God was there all the time. After all God is not looking for petty reasons to send me to hell.

I envision God as being beyond the petty requirements that some religions would put me through. For me to have a God that God would have to be way above petty human squabbles and demands.

I suppose I could call this world purgatory. But I am convinced that it's senseless in a lot of ways instead. The intelligence I see in nature is very haphazard and full of flaws.

I prefer to think of life as a great experiment sometimes. I'm astounded that purposes do exist, and wonder who or what is behind this grande mystery called life.

God is a hard thing for me to let go of because I envision God to be so majestic, and so beyond human comprehension. My measuring stick for a true God is the attributes of all virtues. So maybe we need to be more virtuous to even begin to relate to such a God. However I've met some wonderful people that didn't know God exists.

I just don't want to live in fantasy land about it. I mean not everyone needs mercy. Some people do right and good without ever needing mercy.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a very thoughtful response. Thank you!

Thanks... All your posts are so thoughtful too, and I think you are stuck with me because I like you so much.

I really never wanted to let go of God. For me though I can't get mad at what I don't believe is there.

I do believe God is there and I do get mad, but not all the time, only when I get another test thrown at me, as if I have not already had enough.

It's exciting to believe in God. I used to when I was younger before I knew just how bad the suffering gets in the world.

Well, the suffering does not seem to daunt most believers, they just make excuses for it.... I cannot do that because my mind won't let me.

I never understood why belief in God is a requirement of these religions. I have believed in lots of things that weren't true. Theist philosophers do a lot of mental gymnastics to come up with foolproof arguments for the existence of God.

I have no problem believe in God existing, my problem is that sometimes I want to believe God does not exist. Of course it is a mixed bag. Sometimes I find solace in believing and knowing God is there, but sometimes it is only a burden because of all the responsibilities of being a Baha'i and I think it would be easier to be an atheist.... Trailblazer is caught in between two worlds!

I refuse to torture myself over it. I just try to live the best I can with the cards I've been dealt. If there is a good reason for God to allow this suffering then I'm sure God won't blame me for not knowing God was there all the time. After all God is not looking for petty reasons to send me to hell.

You are of pure heart and virtues so I am sure God won't blame you for not believing. God is not petty. You can only believe what your mind will allow. The same goes for me.

I envision God as being beyond the petty requirements that some religions would put me through. For me to have a God that God would have to be way above petty human squabbles and demands.

I believe that God is far, far above what religions make Him out to be. People can only understand what they can encapsulate and I think that is why they try to encapsulate God, but God is exalted beyond human understanding.

I suppose I could call this world purgatory. But I am convinced that it's senseless in a lot of ways instead. The intelligence I see in nature is very haphazard and full of flaws.

I believe there is a purpose to this life, including the suffering, to prepare us for the life to come, but I still think it is cruel.and haphazard, since some people suffer so much more than others.
Nevertheless it is only my belief in this life as preparation that allows me to tolerate life.

God is a hard thing for me to let go of because I envision God to be so majestic, and so beyond human comprehension. My measuring stick for a true God is the attributes of all virtues. So maybe we need to be more virtuous to even begin to relate to such a God. However I've met some wonderful people that didn't know God exists.

Deep down I believe that the true God is the attributes of all virtues. Maybe we need to be more virtuous to relate to God, maybe that is my problem. Despite my struggles to be virtuous, there are some virtues i just do not have, but maybe God is testing me so I will acquire them. I certainly have acquired patience from my tests, but I lack compassion for some people and I am not quick to forgive.

I just don't want to live in fantasy land about it. I mean not everyone needs mercy. Some people do right and good without ever needing mercy.

No, I don't think it is good to live in a fantasy and that is why I do not believe everything I am supposed to as a Baha'i.

 

[joelr]

Jesus spoke of two roads - one narrow, and one broad.
One leads to destruction. One leads to life Matthew 7:13, 14.

What path are you on?
Where is it leading? Is there a final destination?
Hoping @RayofLight wwill share in this discussion.

Every person who went through a terrible time, mistakes, bad illness, bad relationship, drug addiction, at the other side they often say it was the best thing that could have happened because they learned this and that.
There is no final destination, you just live, sometimes make mistakes, from then you learn, grow, mature. Life is not a movie with one quest then it's happy forever. Everyone is going to have ups and downs and they are important. There is no destination. The good moments are the destination.

 

[rational experiences]

When a human man baby heals his healthy life biological returns to DNA. His human sister mother healed her ovary too.

Two humans two lives create human life by sex only.

So a theist man a teacher as a human says I was born a baby. By a human mother.

Which is human only fact.

So if you tell a human story tell it correctly won't you.

Science is not medical. Science a human healers natural observed aware human statement said.

God was the stated creator term in our heavens.

Taught burning gases alight was sacrificed cold clear immaculate. Existed in space womb void cooling with water.

Motion spin G value cooling O value. Movement of the spirit remains in heavens.

God goes nowhere said the teacher man. Cooling is created. Keeps life safe exact.

So brother if God stays exactly where God exists how did a human mother by God scientific terms heal her ovah ova ovary so you could get reborn.

As just a human man human biology?

Seeing Moses said baby life had been genesis murdered by satanic sciences. Sacrificed on the altar of stone just like animals were as fallout above phenomena and still are attacked today as proof.

Ignored today as mental health ufologists experiences like human Jesus statements before.

The human scientific teaching said due to the human mother's body healing man human babies previously sacrificed out of human DNA had returned. As DNA had healed.

Isn't supernatural themed..
I'm special ...as the origin egotists God man brother thought. Theists of man's sciences.

Same egotists I'm special first said.

Life equal everyone the same and natural.

So a man as a baby whose heavenly father wasn't coloured gases cloak mantle a teaching was reborn.

So you ask why say the coat of many colours had nothing to do with the holy life human baby? It's all about mens old scientific theism. About gases. The colours many of them.

Lying past. Men scientists I'm a special.magical supernatural conjurer scientist man.

When he began to demon strate ..strata stigmata caused the demo graphic ground released gas spirit of a gas took on embodiment of men by burning....was the teaching. Image.

I saw the holographic man's arising from dead men in human history as modern DNA from their past owned sex acts today life was being eradicated in biology.

How I was taught just like my human brother before.

A healer who wasn't special. Said he wasn't. But other humans wanting to be special themselves claimed him special. When he only taught.

If you taught to try to have life saved from murdering rich men of trade and science. He owned a special human teaching only.

It's natural to be spiritual as a human it's not special. Psychic innate awareness is who we once all used to be.

Today just because it is lived you want it to be special. It's normal and natural.

Humans have forgotten what a humans life body and consciousness was as original human. We all were psychic aware and extremely loving.