"Patriarchy"

[MysticSang'ha]

I expected feminist in the forum to know about it. Now you tell me you are a bad source and u dont really trust what you say in the subject does give it a crazy twist.

Oh cripes. I said do not base me as a source if you're looking to prop up what I've said as the reason why feminism is lacking. I also insisted you read feminist writers to get a better idea of what feminism is. I didn't say I was a "bad source."

That said, I have looked for the subject, I simply cant find much, and what I find does support the concept you have said of patriarchism=all inequality.

But sure, given you seemed passionate about it I thought you knew more about it, so then my mistake on believing you were a trustworthy source on their concepts.

Which feminist writers are you going to read then?

 

[Me Myself]

Oh cripes. I said do not base me as a source if you're looking to prop up what I've said as the reason why feminism is lacking. I also insisted you read feminist writers to get a better idea of what feminism is. I didn't say I was a "bad source."



Which feminist writers are you going to read then?

No idea yet. Whatever is out there that is free. Ghere is too much stuff on it, how does this look as a summary of it?


Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Feminism But Were Afraid to Ask | ***** Media

I literslly put where to learn about feminism xD

 

[MysticSang'ha]

No idea yet. Whatever is out there that is free. Ghere is too much stuff on it, how does this look as a summary of it?


Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Feminism But Were Afraid to Ask | ***** Media

I literslly put where to learn about feminism xD

Can you please stop trying to find a summary of feminism? This is about as comprehensive as your perusing the wiki entry on it.

Look up Simone de Beauvoir, Mary Wollstonecraft, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and today's prominent feminist writers and activists like Naomi Wolf, Eve Ensler, Elizabeth Wurtzel, etc. Go to the writers work themselves, not only what is written about them, please.

 

[Me Myself]

Can you please stop trying to find a summary of feminism? This is about as comprehensive as your perusing the wiki entry on it.

Look up Simone de Beauvoir, Mary Wollstonecraft, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and today's prominent feminist writers and activists like Naomi Wolf, Eve Ensler, Elizabeth Wurtzel, etc. Go to the writers work themselves, not only what is written about them, please.

I have to start with something, and something that gives context. The link gives some historical context. The writters books I assume are not free.

 

[Me Myself]

Or you know what? Which are your favorite writers? The ones with whose definitions you coincide?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I have to start with something, and something that gives context. The link gives some historical context. The writters books I assume are not free.

Best sources to start with is the source itself. Ever see the possibility of in the future reading at least ONE feminist work?

 

[Me Myself]

Best sources to start with is the source itself. Ever see the possibility of in the future reading at least ONE feminist work?

Absolutely. I am just broke right now.

In any case, which is your favorite writer that comments on feminism? Which are your favorite books?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Or you know what? Which are your favorite writers? The ones with whose definitions you coincide?

I just gave you a list. I started reading Gloria Steinem when I was 6. My women's studies course in college started us on Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique" and Simone de Beauvior's "The Second Sex." I read Colette, Wollstonecraft, and a few suffragists like Stanton after college.

 

[Me Myself]

I just gave you a list. I started reading Gloria Steinem when I was 6. My women's studies course in college started us on Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique" and Simone de Beauvior's "The Second Sex." I read Colette, Wollstonecraft, and a few suffragists like Stanton after college.

So those are our favorite?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I just gave you a list. I started reading Gloria Steinem when I was 6. My women's studies course in college started us on Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique" and Simone de Beauvior's "The Second Sex." I read Colette, Wollstonecraft, and a few suffragists like Stanton after college.

These are starting points, mind you. Friedan had issues with lesbians being included in NOW. Stanton wanted to withhold voting rights to blacks. Reading the actual works of feminist thinkers gives you first hand experience and knowledge of what they object to and what they fight for. It's their stories told from their perspectives, and most importantly, reading feminists themselves ensures that the women themselves have a voice that is being heard.

Understand that my insistence on reading actual women's work about womanhood and what it's like living as a woman in society is because there are waaaayyyyyy too many writings out there ABOUT women and womanhood that were written from an outside perspective.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

So those are our favorite?

My personal favorites are sex-positive feminist writers. But we're more of a subculture than the more mainstream.

 

[crossfire]

Absolutely. I am just broke right now.

In any case, which is your favorite writer that comments on feminism? Which are your favorite books?

Free e-book Vindication of the Rights of Woman by Mary Wollstonecraft from Project Gutenberg in various formats:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3420

Audio book format:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/26590

 

[Alceste]

Oh my word? No, not at all, take oxford by all means:

Definition of patriarchy in Oxford Dictionaries (British & World English)

That is what patriarchy actually means. Everything else is an elaboration from feminist sources that end up giving a male attribute to the very existence of gender inequality when it simply doesnt have to be that way.

Are you kidding me right now? You seriously think that you become fully informed on the complexities of any given philosophy or social system by reading a dictionary entry? That is amazing. I mean, truly astonishing.

 

[Alceste]

I compared the level of research you and I did on the subject.

Hey, Mystic, I can find Ecuador on a map and name the capital. Therefore my opinion of the political and social life of Ecuador is of equal quality to that of Me Myself, if not superior.

Right?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I want my mommy.

 

[crossfire]

I want my mommy.

If you ask MysticSang'ha nicely, she might give you a big squishy hug.

{I can't right now, because I'm currently having a love-hate relationship with my bra}

 

[Me Myself]

Hey, Mystic, I can find Ecuador on a map and name the capital. Therefore my opinion of the political and social life of Ecuador is of equal quality to that of Me Myself, if not superior.

Right?

No, but our pinion on the limits of Ecuador and the name of the capital may be, provided what I say contradicted google earth.

That would be a re appropiate comparison to the subject at hand.

 

[Me Myself]

Are you kidding me right now? You seriously think that you become fully informed on the complexities of any given philosophy or social system by reading a dictionary entry? That is amazing. I mean, truly astonishing.

Of the details no, but yes of the coverage.

Saying gender roles come from patriarchy because the society has gender roles and is a patriarchy is not a serious causation evidence.

Then again, by all means, give me evidence from any reliable source that patriarchy was the beging of gender roles, and there were none before it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Men face more time in jail than women, female on male rape is not even recognised as rape in a lot of countries, domestic abuse by female to male is universally downplayed.

Both sides have upsides and downsides. Ideally, one should fight all inequality.

Isn't the "males are stronger than females" notion endorsed by patriarchy? If you look at it this way, patriarchy would actually be responsible both for what you're describing above as well as injustice against women.

If both genders were treated equally, female-on-male rape cases would be treated just as much of a concern as male-on-female rape ones.

And if you want to trust on wiki then by all means, from wiki :

The problem with the feminists' approach to patriarchy is to blame men; make men the enemy and women the victim. [33] Patriarchy may be a form of domination over others (men and women) but it is likely that women who ascend to positions of power will exercise power the same way as men do; because it is a deep social structure within western society.

I don't see how feminism makes men "the enemy." Placing primary responsibility on males (not all males) for inequality and injustice against women doesn't imply making all males the enemy; it's just calling a spade a spade and recognizing a huge part of why gender inequality exists.

It seems to me that the part you quoted from Wikipedia above contains weasel wording and pretty broad generalizations about what "feminists" support or oppose.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Hey, Mystic, I can find Ecuador on a map and name the capital. Therefore my opinion of the political and social life of Ecuador is of equal quality to that of Me Myself, if not superior.

Right?

I was once approached by a martial artist who was absolutely sure why men shouldn't dance, why dance was only for women and how unmanly it was, and it was purely because he trained with me in martial arts and told me he'd seen dance before and realized that it wasn't for men.

Then he remarked how well I was picking up self-defense movements, and said he'd attribute it to dance. I mentioned that men around the world dance, and he'd roll his eyes and say again how men don't dance.

I said I'd been in the business for 35 years and have danced with hundreds of men, that I'd taught hundreds of men and boys how to dance, and that there are numerous cultures that see male dancing as extremely masculine. He started yelling in front of the group of people we were hanging out with, "Don't you see? I'm a man! Men don't dance! Men don't dance! You may have been dancing, but you're ignoring the fact that men just don't dance!! I'm a MAN! I should KNOW!"

This thread reminds me of that conversation.