Paul created Calvanism!!!

[Yes]

I do believe God knows the things He is going to do in the future. Like the many prophecies He has declared. I don't believe that He knows the future in detail.

There is no way that I could limit God in the way you just did.

 

[Simplelogic]

There is no way that I could limit God in the way you just did.

Well, I'm actually not. I accept that He has created beings who are completely independent. It actually speaks to His greatness. I think it is important that we take YHVH at His word alone. Once again. Here is a small list of verses which prove YHVH has limited His knowledge of humanity:

There are many passages in the Bible that indicate God does not necessarily know what man will do. The following are just a few of them. This picture of a creator who chooses tonot know what his creature will do shows up right at the beginning of the Bible in the creation account itself .

"Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them." Genesis 2:19

If God is all-knowing of what man will do, why was He so inquisitive of what Adam would do?

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lordregretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth,... for I regret that I have made them." Genesis 6:5-7

How can a wise God do something that He knows He will regret in the future? This passage clearly implies that, had God known when He created man that he would become as evil as he did, He would not have created him! Thus, He did not know. God knew it was a possibility that man could turn toward ultimate evil. That is part of the risk He took in relinquishing control and giving man a free will. But that is not the same as knowing man would become as evil as he did. God had higher hopes for His creation.

But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. And the Lord said, "Indeed, the people are one and they all have one language..." Genesis 11:5,6

Gathering information again! And obviously, it was information He didn't completely possess before.

And the Lord said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know." Genesis 18:20,21

It sounds like He didn't know for sure and was going on a fact-finding mission again!

But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am." And He said, "Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me." Genesis 22:11,12

Again, "now I know", as though He wasn't completely sure before.

Now the word of the Lord came to Samuel, saying, "I greatly regret that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments." 1Samuel 15:11

How can an intelligent God do something He knew He would wish He hadn't done?

"And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." Jeremiah 32:35 (see also Jeremiah 7:31 and 19:5)

God said Himself that it never came into His mind!!

 

[Simplelogic]

YHVH is not responsible for the evil on this earth. Nor did He see it beforehand. He wants to stop it! Most of what happens on this planet has nothing to do with the will of the Father. It is satan's agenda which controls most of this earth. No wonder why Yeshua said to pray that the Father's will be done! Because its NOT BEING DONE.

10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Matt 6: 10

 

[Sleeppy]

I have made my choice on who I have devoted my life to. I have searched and questioned and toiled for much of my life. I haven't blindly accepted anything. I have actually gotten rid of much of the doctrine and teachings about YHVH that I learned from my youth. The God I serve is more than just words on a page. He visits me when I seek Him in secret and sincerity. He has been a friend to me in times of distress. He has rescued me in combat when I as all alone. He has shown me His goodness and I follow His precepts because I am confident that there is none other like Him.

Your assumption that my adherence to His commands is contrary to "righteous judgement" is completely false imho. My life is dedicated to not just doing His commands but meditating on them as well. This is where true wisdom is found.

1My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
2So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
3Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
4If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
5Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. Proverbs 2:1-5

I regard the words of Solomon very high. He was a man who searched for happiness in every arena of life and found emptiness. I can relate to this. But Solomon sums up the true point to life towards the end of his days and it is worth our attention.

13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. Eccl 12: 13-14

How can adherence to the source of all righteousness be contrary to righteousness? You don't understand what I'm saying? -- You will do what you are commanded to do. And depending on the righteousness and purpose of the command, is the outcome. If I stick my unprotected hand into a fire, the judgement precedes the action, and it takes effect according to God's natural laws. Because it precedes the action, we warn people of the dangers a fire presents.

If you read the Tanakh, and the NT using your God-given judgement, that's all I suggested. To blindly accept something because you see it on a page, with YHVH next to it, is obviously very dangerous. Anyone with an imagination can write and attribute his own words to God. All I suggest, is that you test and observe. If you do these things, you won't need to rely on words written thousands of years ago- you'll be able to use real world situations happening everyday.

 

[Simplelogic]

How can adherence to the source of all righteousness be contrary to righteousness? You don't understand what I'm saying? -- You will do what you are commanded to do. And depending on the righteousness and purpose of the command, is the outcome. If I stick my unprotected hand into a fire, the judgement precedes the action, and it takes effect according to God's natural laws. Because it precedes the action, we warn people of the dangers a fire presents.

If you read the Tanakh, and the NT using your God-given judgement, that's all I suggested. To blindly accept something because you see it on a page, with YHVH next to it, is obviously very dangerous. Anyone with an imagination can write and attribute his own words to God. All I suggest, is that you test and observe. If you do these things, you won't need to rely on words written thousands of years ago- you'll be able to use real world situations happening everyday.

I do test and observe everything. And I do rely on words written long ago. Its not one or the other. Your assumptions about my personal spiritual life are getting old.

 

[Sleeppy]

YHVH is not responsible for the evil on this earth. Nor did He see it beforehand. He wants to stop it! Most of what happens on this planet has nothing to do with the will of the Father. It is satan's agenda which controls most of this earth. No wonder why Yeshua said to pray that the Father's will be done! Because its NOT BEING DONE.

10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Matt 6: 10

That entire prayer actually does speak of things already done, and being done. Quote the entire prayer, so that we can look at it line by line.

 

[Simplelogic]

That entire prayer actually does speak of things already done, and being done. Quote the entire prayer, so that we can look at it line by line.

No it doesn't. His kingdom has not come to earth yet in a physical way.

 

[Sleeppy]

I do test and observe everything. And I do rely on words written long ago. Its not one or the other. Your assumptions about my personal spiritual life are getting old.

I'm not trying to offend you. --You're quoting Genesis on events like the world flood, and the tower of Babel. You can do what you like, but is it true that you accept everything that the Tanakh claims God said, or did? How did you verify events like those mentioned above? In the flood, innocent children would've died. And with Babel, the intent of the division is not explained. And the outcome of that division has been somewhat negative.-- There are other events as well, like the slaughter of the first sons in Egypt, and of infants in Numbers. How are you verifying these things?

 

[Simplelogic]

I'm not trying to offend you. --You're quoting Genesis on events like the world flood, and the tower of Babel. You can do what you like, but is it true that you accept everything that the Tanakh claims God said, or did? How did you verify events like those mentioned above? In the flood, innocent children would've died. And with Babel, the intent of the division is not explained. And the outcome of that division has been somewhat negative.-- There are other events as well, like the slaughter of the first sons in Egypt, and of infants in Numbers. How are you verifying these things?

I have no problem with YHVH bringing calamity upon evil humans. YHVH makes it very clear that he does not judge the righteous for the wicked's mistakes. He even goes to great lengths to lead righteous people away from places He has purposed to destroy.

How does anyone verify anything? One must seek ask and knock. That means when we come across something that challenges our faith, we don't turn away from it. YVHH's wants us to ask difficult questions, and I have done so. Every time He reveals to me more of His will and purpose for humanity.

As far as physical evidence goes:

-The remains of sodom and gomorrah have been found and they are still covered in brimstone.

- The Egyptian chariots have also been found lining the bottom of the Red sea.

-Mt. Sinai has also been found in Arabia. The top still burnt off.

-Skeletons of human giants have been found in every part of the globe. Testament to the giant stories in the Bible. There is a human femur bone that was discovered in the Euphrates river which belongs to a man over 15 ft high.

 

[Yes]

Well, I'm actually not. I accept that He has created beings who are completely independent. It actually speaks to His greatness. I think it is important that we take YHVH at His word alone. Once again. Here is a small list of verses which prove YHVH has limited His knowledge of humanity:

There are many passages in the Bible that indicate God does not necessarily know what man will do. The following are just a few of them. This picture of a creator who chooses tonot know what his creature will do shows up right at the beginning of the Bible in the creation account itself .

"Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them." Genesis 2:19

If God is all-knowing of what man will do, why was He so inquisitive of what Adam would do?

God knew what Adam would do.
God made the plan for salvation to be through Jesus. God made this plain before He made anything. God made this plan before the creation of the world.
1 Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
God made the world through Jesus, by Jesus and for Jesus. If you want scripture references, just ask.

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lordregretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth,... for I regret that I have made them." Genesis 6:5-7

How can a wise God do something that He knows He will regret in the future? This passage clearly implies that, had God known when He created man that he would become as evil as he did, He would not have created him! Thus, He did not know. God knew it was a possibility that man could turn toward ultimate evil. That is part of the risk He took in relinquishing control and giving man a free will. But that is not the same as knowing man would become as evil as he did. God had higher hopes for His creation.

This is for our benefit, not for God’s benefit.
God KNEW that man would sin. God does not want robots. God wants us to, on our own, chose Him. We are now speaking about the deep things of God.

But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. And the Lord said, "Indeed, the people are one and they all have one language..." Genesis 11:5,6

Gathering information again! And obviously, it was information He didn't completely possess before.

And the Lord said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know." Genesis 18:20,21
It sounds like He didn't know for sure and was going on a fact-finding mission again!

God wants us humans to understand. Do not mistake that for God not understanding.

But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am." And He said, "Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me." Genesis 22:11,12

Again, "now I know", as though He wasn't completely sure before.

Please, I implore you, listen carefully. God knew what Abraham would do, but God wants US to know. God wants us to know.

Now the word of the Lord came to Samuel, saying, "I greatly regret that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments." 1Samuel 15:11

How can an intelligent God do something He knew He would wish He hadn't done?

It is for OUR teaching. Please listen to me. Consider what I am saying. We are children being taught by God.

"And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." Jeremiah 32:35 (see also Jeremiah 7:31 and 19:5)

God said Himself that it never came into His mind!!

This is about humans sacrificing their own human children.

 

[Simplelogic]

God knew what Adam would do.
God made the plan for salvation to be through Jesus. God made this plain before He made anything. God made this plan before the creation of the world.
1 Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
God made the world through Jesus, by Jesus and for Jesus. If you want scripture references, just ask.

This is for our benefit, not for God’s benefit.
God KNEW that man would sin. God does not want robots. God wants us to, on our own, chose Him. We are now speaking about the deep things of God.

God wants us humans to understand. Do not mistake that for God not understanding.


Please, I implore you, listen carefully. God knew what Abraham would do, but God wants US to know. God wants us to know.

It is for OUR teaching. Please listen to me. Consider what I am saying. We are children being taught by God.

This is about humans sacrificing their own human children.

Why do you keep putting your own ideas into God's words?? God says simply that He doesn't know, yet you are acting like He was only kidding to make a point. I disagree and believe that YHVH means what He says. YHVH says "now I know" concerning Abraham…not "now you know".

 

[Simplelogic]

I agree that YHVH had was prepared for man to fail. I think He knew it would be a process of learning over and over again. But I don't believe he created Adam and Eve to fail. He wanted them to obey and live, THEY FAILED and YHVH was ready to correct the issue. Thats all.

 

[Yes]

Why do you keep putting your own ideas into God's words?? God says simply that He doesn't know, yet you are acting like He was only kidding to make a point. I disagree and believe that YHVH means what He says. YHVH says "now I know" concerning Abraham…not "now you know".

You are wrong about me, and more importantly, you are wrong about God.

 

[Simplelogic]

I too believe that Yeshua preexisted this world. So what?

 

[Simplelogic]

You are wrong about me, and more importantly, you are wrong about God.

Just read what He says. Not what man says about him.

 

[Simplelogic]

Why did YHVH give manna?

Then the LORD said to Moses, "Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may test them, whether or not they will walk in My instruction. Exodus 16:4

YHVH had already rescued His people with great signs and wonders. But there were still many who were not sincere. YHVH gave manna to find out who was truly loyal to Him. And it worked!

 

[Simplelogic]

God knew what Adam would do.
God made the plan for salvation to be through Jesus. God made this plain before He made anything. God made this plan before the creation of the world.
1 Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
God made the world through Jesus, by Jesus and for Jesus. If you want scripture references, just ask.

This is for our benefit, not for God’s benefit.
God KNEW that man would sin. God does not want robots. God wants us to, on our own, chose Him. We are now speaking about the deep things of God.

God wants us humans to understand. Do not mistake that for God not understanding.


Please, I implore you, listen carefully. God knew what Abraham would do, but God wants US to know. God wants us to know.

It is for OUR teaching. Please listen to me. Consider what I am saying. We are children being taught by God.

This is about humans sacrificing their own human children.

If God knows everything man will do ahead of time them all He has is robots carrying out His will, whether it be good or evil.

 

[Yes]

Why do you keep putting your own ideas into God's words?? God says simply that He doesn't know, yet you are acting like He was only kidding to make a point. I disagree and believe that YHVH means what He says. YHVH says "now I know" concerning Abraham…not "now you know".

God does not say what you claim God knows.

 

[Yes]

I too believe that Yeshua preexisted this world. So what?

Why do you say so what?

 

[Yes]

Just read what He says. Not what man says about him.

God hides His Truth so that we can search Him and find Him, to our glory.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.