Peace between Christians, Jews, and Muslims

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jews, Christians, and Muslims together in a joint service.

Mh i dont like that.

I have no problem with it as long as it's in a Synagogue or Mosque.

There is real value in interfaith services where the rabbi, imam, and minister are each sensitive to the beliefs of others in the room.

In the last two years I've attended an interfaith Thanksgiving service, first in a nearby synagogue and more recently in a nearby mosque. I have no idea where it will be held this year, but the thought of boycotting it should it be held in a church strikes me as preposterous and repugnant - the crucifix/cross in the room is not going to taint my Judaism nor detract from my respect for those Christians eager to participate in such a service.

 

[Tarheeler]

There is real value in interfaith services where the rabbi, imam, and minister are each sensitive to the beliefs of others in the room.

In the last two years I've attended an interfaith Thanksgiving service, first in a nearby synagogue and more recently in a nearby mosque. I have no idea where it will be held this year, but the thought of boycotting it should it be held in a church strikes me as preposterous and repugnant - the crucifix/cross in the room is not going to taint my Judaism nor detract from my respect for those Christians eager to participate in such a service.

I agree.

I've gone to a number of interfaith classes on a variety of subjects, and, considering that we are the only synagogue in the area and the local Muslim community chooses not to participate, the majority of them are held in Christian churches. Any prayers offered are kept very universal with no mention of Jesus or anything that even hints to Christianity, and since we, as Jews, put no religious value on crosses, crucifixes, or other Christian symbols, it isn't an issue.

 

[sandandfoam]

I was talking to an uncle of mine over the weekend, he told me that he believes in God and all the rest of it, in his view, is 'just messing about'.

I think that's a very healthy attitude.

 

[dantech]

There is real value in interfaith services where the rabbi, imam, and minister are each sensitive to the beliefs of others in the room.

In the last two years I've attended an interfaith Thanksgiving service, first in a nearby synagogue and more recently in a nearby mosque. I have no idea where it will be held this year, but the thought of boycotting it should it be held in a church strikes me as preposterous and repugnant - the crucifix/cross in the room is not going to taint my Judaism nor detract from my respect for those Christians eager to participate in such a service.

I am not trying to boycott it. The way I see it, I rather follow Halakha which forbids me of being in a Church. Especially when it would be so easy to accomodate everyone by doing it in the Mosque, Synagogue, or even in a public park or something - as long as it is not forbidden.

I agree.

I've gone to a number of interfaith classes on a variety of subjects, and, considering that we are the only synagogue in the area and the local Muslim community chooses not to participate, the majority of them are held in Christian churches. Any prayers offered are kept very universal with no mention of Jesus or anything that even hints to Christianity, and since we, as Jews, put no religious value on crosses, crucifixes, or other Christian symbols, it isn't an issue.

The importance of the subject doesn't lie on which types of prayers are recited, but rather in the location of the service. I understand your feelings about how the crosses and crucifixes have no effect on you. However, to me, it is more than that. It is about Jewish law, which forbids me of being in a Church. I am in no position to choose which laws are more important than others and pick which ones I should follow. I follow as many as I possibly can. I personally don't know which is worse - turning on the light on Shabbat, or walking into a Church. For that reason, when something is forbidden, it is not for me to make the call, it is for the Rabbis that set the Halakhas according to their many, many, many years of scholarship and wisdom, which I lack greatly in comparison to them.

 

[Tarheeler]

The importance of the subject doesn't lie on which types of prayers are recited, but rather in the location of the service. I understand your feelings about how the crosses and crucifixes have no effect on you. However, to me, it is more than that. It is about Jewish law, which forbids me of being in a Church. I am in no position to choose which laws are more important than others and pick which ones I should follow. I follow as many as I possibly can. I personally don't know which is worse - turning on the light on Shabbat, or walking into a Church. For that reason, when something is forbidden, it is not for me to make the call, it is for the Rabbis that set the Halakhas according to their many, many, many years of scholarship and wisdom, which I lack greatly in comparison to them.

My rabbi was either leading the class or sitting on the pew beside me.

 

[dantech]

I was talking to an uncle of mine over the weekend, he told me that he believes in God and all the rest of it, in his view, is 'just messing about'.

I think that's a very healthy attitude.

I personally agree that the most important thing regarding religion, is faith in the existance of God. I don't necessarly agree that the rest is 'just messing about', I think that it is all simply a way for each individual to find the best possible way to serve our creator.

The most important thing, and I think everyone will agree, is that you just need to apply as much effort as possible in being the best possible person you can be towards others. Helping others in need, giving money to the poor, being respectful, never embarassing others, etc... are all on the top of my list.

 

[dantech]

My rabbi was either leading the class or sitting on the pew beside me.

My rabbi was very clear when he said to never step foot in a Church. To each his own. It's great that you follow your rabbi. I follow mine as well, and all I am saying is if you can easily accomodate the ones that follow my type of rabbi, then why not just do it in an acceptable location for all parties.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

My rabbi was very clear when he said to never step foot in a Church.

Your rabbi is part of the problem.

 

[jazzymom]

I found this so great I needed to post it here.
It's about how a group of Jews were not able to pay rent anymore for their synagogue. So the local Muslim group opened the doors of their Mosque, and welcomed them in to be able to pray in a Holy environment. The third party, who made the introduction between the leaders of the Mosque and the Synagogue, was Patricia Tomasulo, the Catholic Democratic precinct captain and Parkchester community organizer.

Al-Iman Mosque shares Bronx building with Jewish congregation Beis Menachem - NYPOST.com

A Struggling Bronx Synagogue Finds Free Housing

This is a great step towards world peace. If only everyone around the world, Jews, Christians and Muslims, could take example on these guys.

My synagogue shares a space with the local Muslim community so that on Friday the Muslims can go to Friday prayers without having to drive out of their way to the larger mosque. The mosque has a large membership but it is spread out over the Northern Virginia area. In order to have places for their members to attend Friday prayers the mosque rents out smaller places so Muslims can attend prayers without having to drive all the way to the larger mosque.

My synagogue has had a relationship with this mosque and the Imam for the last 10 years.

Recently we were in the news:

BBC News - US synagogue welcomes Muslims seeking a place to pray

In addition we take part in interfaith activities and our Tamid program (Religious school for 7th -12th grade) which is part of our kahilat limmud/Community of learners (our religious school) program has a social action program where our kids meet up with the Muslim kids to share in a social action activity.

 

[jazzymom]

In a sense Muslims and Jews can't pray in a curch if i am correct since most of them have idols, paintings and off-course not to forget Jesus(pbuh) hanging on a cross.

Correct me if i am wrong..

No not all churches have idols, religious paintings or Jesus hanging on a cross.

In fact the lay led community I used to be a part of rented space out of the local Episcopal church and they did not have any of these items. It was very neutral. They used the sanctuary for HHD services and the church was very accommodating in removing the 1 or 2 religious items put out for their services.

This lay led community opened their HHD services free to anyone who would like to attend.

 

[jazzymom]

My rabbi was very clear when he said to never step foot in a Church. To each his own. It's great that you follow your rabbi. I follow mine as well, and all I am saying is if you can easily accomodate the ones that follow my type of rabbi, then why not just do it in an acceptable location for all parties.

Because it is insulting to the Christians who take part in interfaith activities. We will accept being in interfaith activities with you just not enter your building.

The Christian communities I have been involved with are very accommodating and go as far as to remove religious art, crosses etc from the spaces being used for interfaith activities.

 

[Flankerl]

The Christian communities I have been involved with are very accommodating and go as far as to remove religious art, crosses etc from the spaces being used for interfaith activities.

Well it isnt like that everywhere. Here in europe its basically impossible to remove christian symbols from the churches or cathedrals because they are integral part of the building.

Before christmas there is probably going to be more interfaith "fun" and the main service is probably going to take place in the cologne cathedral. And i dont see me entering that building.

 

[dantech]

Your rabbi is part of the problem.

Go say that to Rav Ovadiah Yossef.

The rabbinic consensus, based on the Talmud (Avodah Zara 17a,) is that it is forbidden to enter a church, even if just to admire the architecture or artwork. This body of opinion spans the generations and comprises leading medieval Sephardic and Ashkenazi rabbis such as Maimonides, Rashba (Rabbi Solomon ben Aderet), Ritba (Rabbi Yom Tov ibn Asevilli) and Rosh (Rabbi Asher ben Yechiel), as well as contemporary halachists including Rabbis Moshe Feinstien, Ovadia Yosef and Eliezer Waldenberg.

I don't think my Rabbi is part of the problem. I don't even see a problem to begin with.

 

[Vyruufin]

'I love you when you bow in your mosque, kneel in your temple or pray in your church. For we have but one religion, that of the soul.' -Gibran Khalil Gibran

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Before christmas there is probably going to be more interfaith "fun" and the main service is probably going to take place in the cologne cathedral. And i dont see me entering that building.

It's rather beautiful inside.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Go say that to Rav Ovadiah Yossef.

I know of very few people as offensive as Rav Ovadiah Yossef.

 

[Shermana]

Go say that to Rav Ovadiah Yossef.

The rabbinic consensus, based on the Talmud (Avodah Zara 17a,) is that it is forbidden to enter a church, even if just to admire the architecture or artwork. This body of opinion spans the generations and comprises leading medieval Sephardic and Ashkenazi rabbis such as Maimonides, Rashba (Rabbi Solomon ben Aderet), Ritba (Rabbi Yom Tov ibn Asevilli) and Rosh (Rabbi Asher ben Yechiel), as well as contemporary halachists including Rabbis Moshe Feinstien, Ovadia Yosef and Eliezer Waldenberg.

I don't think my Rabbi is part of the problem. I don't even see a problem to begin with.

Yeah I was under the impression the historical mainstream Jewish opinion was that it's forbidden to enter any church.

 

[dantech]

Yeah I was under the impression the historical mainstream Jewish opinion was that it's forbidden to enter any church.

Hystorical and modern

 

[dantech]

I know of very few people as offensive as Rav Ovadiah Yossef.

What about Maimonides, Rashba (Rabbi Solomon ben Aderet), Ritba (Rabbi Yom Tov ibn Asevilli) and Rosh (Rabbi Asher ben Yechiel), as well as Rabbis Moshe Feinstien and Eliezer Waldenberg?

Are they all offensive? Or does the opinion of at least one of these Rabbis matter? Nah, you must be right... you know more about Judaism than they ever did/will.

 

[Tarheeler]

So it appears we can have peace between Christians, Jews, and Muslims, but peace between Jews is whole 'nother ball of wax.....