Peace between Christians, Jews, and Muslims

[Dingbat]

So it appears we can have peace between Christians, Jews, and Muslims, but peace between Jews is whole 'nother ball of wax.....

Yeah it was an inspiring thread that quickly turned to ****. Congrats to all those who felt the need to have a tantrum.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So it appears we can have peace between Christians, Jews, and Muslims, but peace between Jews is whole 'nother ball of wax.....

Appeals for peace between Christians, Jews, and Muslims are hallow and hypocritical if we are unwilling to repudiate the likes of Rav Ovadiah Yossef and what he stands for.

See, for example, the IRAC's valuable LOVR THE STRANGER AS YOURSELF? RACISM IN THE NAME OF HALACHA.

Appeals to Rav Ovadiah Yossef in a thread such as this is outrageous.

Returning to the issue of Jews entering a church, the argument was well made by Rabbi Naftali Brower who wrote:

One cannot simply enter a church without some aspect of the church entering you. To put it another way: by entering a church, one enters into a Christian religious experience.​

This idea of being inevitably tainted/infected is precisely the same mentality that insists that the women in Israel move to the back of the bus. I reject it.

 

[F0uad]

Well muslims can enter a church only not pray inside it (If it has idols, paintings or a Jesus(pbuh) hanging on a cross) if not a prayer can be done inside it..... I think. In Morocco there are many jews that pray side to side with muslims in mosque's.

 

[dantech]

Well muslims can enter a church only not pray inside it (If it has idols, paintings or a Jesus(pbuh) hanging on a cross) if not a prayer can be done inside it..... I think. In Morocco there are many jews that pray side to side with muslims in mosque's.

About 70-80 years ago, there were hundreds of thousands of Jews in Morocco. They got along more then well with their Muslim brothers. Up to this day, we Moroccan Jews still have a lot of Arabic traditions that we apply in our lives because of how close the two were during the time of my parents

 

[heksesang]

That is a statement of faith, not fact.

The Trinity was a doctrine later developed to explain how God and Jesus could be one and how there could be three Gods (while keeping a monotheistic religion). It was never explicitly mentioned in the original scripture:

Although the New Testament does not use the word Τριάς (Trinity) nor explicitly teach it, it provided the material upon which the doctrine of the Trinity was formulated.[17] Reflection by early Christians on passages such as the Great Commission: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"[Matt 28:19] and Paul the Apostle's blessing: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all,"[2 Cor. 13:14] while at the same time the Jewish Shema Yisrael: "Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one."[Deuteronomy 6:4][18] led the early Christians to question how the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "one". Later, the diverse references to God, Jesus, and the Spirit found in the New Testament were systematized into a Trinity—one God subsisting in three persons and one substance—to combat heretical tendencies of how the three are related and to defend the church against charges of worshiping two or three gods.[19]

 

[Levite]

Go say that to Rav Ovadiah Yossef.

The rabbinic consensus, based on the Talmud (Avodah Zara 17a,) is that it is forbidden to enter a church, even if just to admire the architecture or artwork. This body of opinion spans the generations and comprises leading medieval Sephardic and Ashkenazi rabbis such as Maimonides, Rashba (Rabbi Solomon ben Aderet), Ritba (Rabbi Yom Tov ibn Asevilli) and Rosh (Rabbi Asher ben Yechiel), as well as contemporary halachists including Rabbis Moshe Feinstien, Ovadia Yosef and Eliezer Waldenberg.

I don't think my Rabbi is part of the problem. I don't even see a problem to begin with.

There are other halachic opinions, soundly based on rishonim (medieval authority) and traditional sources. They support being able to go into a church either to promote good relations with the non-Jews, or for the sake of education. I'll try to find some sources to post when I have a moment.

I'm not saying you should disregard your practice or reject what your rabbi teaches you. Only pointing out that there are other halachic ways to look at this.

I know of very few people as offensive as Rav Ovadiah Yossef.

Actually, though I find his politics and social attitudes abysmal and egregious, he is actually surprisingly lenient and thorough as a halachist. Not always, but more often that one might think.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Actually, though I find his politics and social attitudes abysmal and egregious, he is actually surprisingly lenient and thorough as a halachist.

I would think that the fact that one can be a thoroughly bigoted thorough halachist should be cause for concern.

 

[Levite]

I would think that the fact that one can be a thoroughly bigoted thorough halachist should be cause for concern.

Maybe. But we're hardly the only culture where a judge can often be both expert and fair in courtroom, dealing with the technical precision of law, and yet personally consistently be a douche outside the courtroom....

 

[dantech]

There are other halachic opinions, soundly based on rishonim (medieval authority) and traditional sources. They support being able to go into a church either to promote good relations with the non-Jews, or for the sake of education. I'll try to find some sources to post when I have a moment.

Do they say anything about praying in a Church?

I'm not saying you should disregard your practice or reject what your rabbi teaches you. Only pointing out that there are other halachic ways to look at this.

There are always different halachic ways and opinions. I have no problem with that. All I was saying, is if it is so simple for the Christians to please all halachic opinions simply by not doing this joint service inside the Church's Sanctuary, then why not? Why do it somewhere where you know some Jews won't be able to join you.

 

[Godobeyer]

thanks for this thread .
I am with peace with jews and muslims and christians , and against in extremism in any religion .