Peaceful coexistence between scientists and theologians

[kowalskil]

I would very much like to know what people on this website think about peaceful coexistence between those who study our material world (scientists) and those who study our spiritual world (theologians). My attempt to write an essay on that subject failed, as you can see at:

Spirituality and science

The webpage was prepared to generate a debate/discussion

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)

 

[kowalskil]

1) Those who post comments should refer specific contributions as numbered (or to specific person, as numbered at the beginning). This will simplify the discussion or debate.

2) And let us keep in mind that the main topic is peaceful coexistence. Is it possible? Is it desirable? What should we do promote it? etc.

Thank you in advance,

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.

 

[outhouse]

peaceful coexistence. Is it possible?

peaceful yes it is possible, if you can keep theologians from crossing the lines of reality.

Is it desirable?

not really because religion as a whole doesnt play well with reality. In my opinion religion was created by mans imagination for questions he could not answer . Science and imagination are opposites.

many people that are religious are scientist, they keep there religion seperate and that is what makes them good scientist.


may not be what your looking for but I choose not to get to deep in hypothetical imagination.

 

[DeistPrimate]

If theologians would cease attempts to challenge science on topics bearing on real material issues there'd be peace. The scientific method is a machine devised to distill facts from the natural world.

There's no scientific evidence a "spiritual world" exists for anyone to study to begin with.

 

[Know it all.]

I would very much like to know what people on this website think about peaceful coexistence between those who study our material world (scientists) and those who study our spiritual world (theologians). My attempt to write an essay on that subject failed, as you can see at:

Spirituality and science

The webpage was prepared to generate a debate/discussion

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)

The thing is that peace is not a true virtue and peace is presented as a virtue by those that do not want any opposition.

Peace without justice means oppression, so promote justice and then peace will come like magic or as a miracle.

To seek "peace" as the goal is very contrary to real virtues.

Governments want peace and Gov's promote peace because Governments want to rule over the people without opposition.

Moses did not teach peace, Jesus did not preach peace, the Mahatma Gandhi showed noncooperation and civil disobedience to directly upset the peace, even terrorism is for disrupting the "peace" of oppression and oppressors.

If we work for justice and righteousness and seek after truth then peace can come as a result but not as the goal.

When you say you wanted to "generate debate" then that means generating non-peace so you need to change your words to match the reality.

My perspective.

 

[Pegg]

there can be peace between the two if they BOTH acknowledge the legitimacy of the other.

We need science to understand our world full stop. Yes we can live in the world without understanding how it functions, but I dont think that is at all what God intended for us... if he did then he would not have created us with such an inquiring mind.

But science can never, and will never be able to tell us about God himself...only God can tell us those things and they come in the form of theology.

So for humans to be happy, we need both.

I would just like to see science recognize the legitimacy of the bible record a bit more though. I mean, 50 years ago scientists believed the universe was eternal...that belief went all the way back to Aristotle. Then they learn that it started with a flash of light and it had a beginning just as the bible states but the bible is still a fairytale...pffft.

 

[outhouse]

So for humans to be happy, we need both.

this is false

not everyone relys on imagination to get them through the day

if they BOTH acknowledge the legitimacy of the other.

there is no legitimacy with religion none at all. The bible has been proven to be full of lies over and over. It is a great piece of fiction however and a fictitious guide that can be great for the old sick and dieing to give them comfort in times of need. It plays on fear and hope to keep itself alive.

It is not and will never be a guide to history and or science of any kind, to use imagination in the fields is flat wrong and that is why we keep religion out of schools. It was a step foward to outlaw creation from public schools

 

[ninerbuff]

there can be peace between the two if they BOTH acknowledge the legitimacy of the other.

We need science to understand our world full stop. Yes we can live in the world without understanding how it functions, but I dont think that is at all what God intended for us... if he did then he would not have created us with such an inquiring mind.

But science can never, and will never be able to tell us about God himself...only God can tell us those things and they come in the form of theology.

So for humans to be happy, we need both.

I would just like to see science recognize the legitimacy of the bible record a bit more though. I mean, 50 years ago scientists believed the universe was eternal...that belief went all the way back to Aristotle. Then they learn that it started with a flash of light and it had a beginning just as the bible states but the bible is still a fairytale...pffft.

Science doesn't have to conform to religion. The two are mutually exclusive. Stem cell research is on the brink of possibly curing some major illnesses, but opposition from religion is deterring progress.
IVF helped couples (even christian ones who prayed with others) to conceive a child where that prayer didn't help.
Each day science finds more and more information that will eventually lead to our origins and then what? Religion will still defy. But then again this is my opinion.

 

[sandandfoam]

It is not an either/or situation.

 

[outhouse]

Each day science finds more and more information that will eventually lead to our origins and then what?

WE already know our origins, and there is no scientific debate about that at all.

mankind evolved. This is a fact.

 

[Pegg]

this is false

not everyone relys on imagination to get them through the day



there is no legitimacy with religion none at all. The bible has been proven to be full of lies over and over. It is a great piece of fiction however and a fictitious guide that can be great for the old sick and dieing to give them comfort in times of need. It plays on fear and hope to keep itself alive.

It is not and will never be a guide to history and or science of any kind, to use imagination in the fields is flat wrong and that is why we keep religion out of schools. It was a step foward to outlaw creation from public schools

well i hate to break it to you but the genesis account about a 'beginning' to the universe was correct while scientists, even right up until 50 odd years ago, believed in an eternal universe.

that is just one example of how the bible was right, but people like yourself refuse to acknowledge it... thats called cognitive dissonance ...ever heard of it?

 

[Pegg]

Science doesn't have to conform to religion. The two are mutually exclusive. Stem cell research is on the brink of possibly curing some major illnesses, but opposition from religion is deterring progress.
IVF helped couples (even christian ones who prayed with others) to conceive a child where that prayer didn't help.
Each day science finds more and more information that will eventually lead to our origins and then what? Religion will still defy. But then again this is my opinion.

science goes too far sometimes, we all know that and we've all seen that. The problem with science is that it is not governed by morality or ethics

look at how they were patenting genes not so long ago, experimenting with diseases and drugs on unwilling human subjects...the ethics of doing so is just plain wrong and completely disregards human rights. For stem cell research they were using human embryos... they cant create a human life and then kill it in the name of research


science needs to be held accountable and that is where religion comes in

 

[Pegg]

WE already know our origins, and there is no scientific debate about that at all.

mankind evolved. This is a fact.

LOL

when they come to realise that humans did not descend from apes, I hope you take note.

 

[Tristesse]

well i hate to break it to you but the genesis account about a 'beginning' to the universe was correct while scientists, even right up until 50 odd years ago, believed in an eternal universe.

that is just one example of how the bible was right, but people like yourself refuse to acknowledge it... thats called cognitive dissonance ...ever heard of it?

Almost every religion, or creation myth posits a beginning. Does that mean that they're all correct? By the way, scientists don't say the universe has a beginning, in fact, it's most likely that the universe has always existed in some form. And what physicists mean by, "nothing" is not the colloquial meaning of nothing.

 

[Pegg]

Almost every religion, or creation myth posits a beginning. Does that mean that they're all correct? By the way, scientists don't say the universe has a beginning, in fact, it's most likely that the universe has always existed in some form. And what physicists mean by, "nothing" is not the colloquial meaning of nothing.

every religion had its origin with mankinds first 2, Adam and Eve and this is why they all teach similar stories

of course they are all correct when they describe a 'beginning' because that was what they learned from these earliest ancestors.

I dont think all scientists do believe the universe has always existed...well at least not the ones basing their views on the facts.

 

[Tristesse]

every religion had its origin with mankinds first 2, Adam and Eve and this is why they all teach similar stories

of course they are all correct when they describe a 'beginning' because that was what they learned from these earliest ancestors.

I dont think all scientists do believe the universe has always existed...well at least not the ones basing their views on the facts.

Well, the scientists basing their veiws on the facts, would be correct in saying that the universe has always existed in some form. Thats what the evidence indicates.

So, the creation story of the hindu's is correct, even though it contradicts your own?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

every religion had its origin with mankinds first 2, Adam and Eve and this is why they all teach similar stories

Not true

 

[outhouse]

LOL

when they come to realise that humans did not descend from apes, I hope you take note.

this is only due to your severe lack of education

 

[outhouse]

well i hate to break it to you but the genesis account about a 'beginning' to the universe was correct while scientists, even right up until 50 odd years ago, believed in an eternal universe.

that is just one example of how the bible was right, but people like yourself refuse to acknowledge it... thats called cognitive dissonance ...ever heard of it?

genesis was never correct with scientist, please provide a source for your ill though statement.

the bible has never been right about anything and people like yourself are blatantly dishonest due to a severe lack of education due to your closed mind, brainwashed by religion

 

[Pegg]

Well, the scientists basing their veiws on the facts, would be correct in saying that the universe has always existed in some form. Thats what the evidence indicates.

the facts show that the universe began with a flash of light... before that flash of light there was no universe because the universe came to be only AFTER the flash of light.

im sure some scientists would like to continue to believe, and teach, that it has always been in some form because that removes the need for a first cause.

So, the creation story of the hindu's is correct, even though it contradicts your own?

its correct in as much as it explains that a god created the universe, yes.