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Peaceful transfer of Power.

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
And let's add those Senators who asserted Trump learned his lesson after impeachment.

So many of them of mumbled words to the effect that they had sent Trump a message.

Looks like he got it.

Also looks like it turned out to be a different message from the one they thought they had sent.


To me it's quite curious that so very many Americans seem to lack the personal life-experiences to know full well what they are dealing with in Donald Trump, and to have known it from soon after they first laid eyes on him. It's difficult to believe so many, many people have led such sheltered lives. To be sure, I hope it's they lack the experience. The alternative is they have the experience, but learned nothing from it.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Looks like the left is ignoring the numerous members of the GOP who called out the rioters and requested peace.

Where were all of you when Portland and other cities were getting destroyed?
 
Looks like the left is ignoring the numerous members of the GOP who called out the rioters and requested peace.

Where were all of you when Portland and other cities were getting destroyed?
We were campaigning and voting for this guy. Why do you ask?

Joe Biden for President: Official Campaign Website Statement by Vice President Joe Biden on the Deadly Violence in Portland

You mention members of the Trump Party who called out the rioters and requested peace. I commend those comments. It’s a bit like deploying the airbags after impact, but, better late than never. And I also note that they were quicker to condemn Trump after he betrayed the party and put their personal safety at risk and threw many of them under the bus. But still ... glad to have them back on America’s side after enabling the monster that is Trump.

Is that better? I didn’t mean to ignore them. ;)

By the way this thread is about peaceful transfer of power. Some of us have been warning about this for a long time. Mitt Romney spoke quite eloquently about this on the Senate floor, after our Capital was retaken.
 
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fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Looks like the left is ignoring the numerous members of the GOP who called out the rioters and requested peace.

Where were all of you when Portland and other cities were getting destroyed?
In the middle of a fire you want us all to take time and applaud all the people not pouring gasoline?

Even when many of these people have been pouring it on till now and only stopped because they themselves are starting to get burned.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I am surprised and impressed that you agree that the 25th should be invoked. I thought you would tell me it would be an overreaction.
Sure, sure...it's rather extreme, but remember that I'm
an extremist. I've long favored more prosecution of
politicians. This is an obviously appropriate reaction
to his outrageous behavior in this last week.

The riot in the Capital strikes me as less significant
than people here are taking it relative to governance
& democracy. The system dealt with it well enuf.

But I see something different & worse....
We have foreign enemies, eg, Russia, China who
smell weakness, division, & distraction. Trump made
us far more vulnerable to their sensing opportunity
to attack our interests. This is worse than 4 years of
merely losing face....this is losing ability to govern
ourselves. Trump is a major security threat.
 
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Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Sure, sure...it's rather extreme, but remember that I'm
an extremist. I've long favored more prosecution of
politicians. This is an obviously appropriate reaction
to his outrageous behavior in this last week.

The riot in the Capital strikes me as less significant
than people here are taking it relative to governance
& democracy. The system dealt with it well enuf.

But I see something different & worse....
We have foreign enemies, eg, Russia, China who
smell weakness, division, & distraction. Trump made
us far more vulnerable to their sensing opportunity
to attack our interests. This is worse than 4 years of
merely losing face....this is losing ability to govern
ourselves. Trump is a major security threat.


China at least harvests the organs of those corrupt politicians and billionaire business men it convicts for crimes against the state. A sort of repayment in kind.

Not that anyone would want a bit of Trump inside them.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Remember back when those nuts with TDS actually suggested that Trump would not support a peaceful transfer of power? What an insane suggestion. Of course Trump will participate in a peaceful transfer, all his rhetoric is just a harmless joke. No one is going to get violent. Those lefties are just paranoid.
Taking a poke at people huh?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
In that question “you” refered to American, not you personally. That was unclear and that was my mistake.

But the question is what will the US do now? Is it now finally time for the 25th? Is there any doubt now that Trump is unfit and dangerous? If Trump calls for more violence, something needs to be done.
What danger of Trump would be addressed by removing him from office for the last 2 weeks of his term?

Even if he's removed, he can still hold rallies and rant on social media.

If he's removed, I don't think it would improve the situation. All you'd be doing is putting Pence in a position where he could pardon Trump.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
What danger of Trump would be addressed by removing him from office for the last 2 weeks of his term?

Even if he's removed, he can still hold rallies and rant on social media.

If he's removed, I don't think it would improve the situation. All you'd be doing is putting Pence in a position where he could pardon Trump.
That is a good point. But once out of office Trump could be banned from social media in a more permanent way, (at this time Trump is banned, but will soon have his access restored). And Pence can only pardon for criminal crimes.

Still you might be right.
 
What danger of Trump would be addressed by removing him from office for the last 2 weeks of his term?

Even if he's removed, he can still hold rallies and rant on social media.

If he's removed, I don't think it would improve the situation. All you'd be doing is putting Pence in a position where he could pardon Trump.
This is a good point.

However, here’s why the 25th should be considered. Maybe not used, but considered.

Yesterday, Trump largely abandoned his post in responding to the insurrection. He went back to the WH and watched TV while the rest of the US government was under attack. The Republican House leader frantically called Trump and begged him to do something ... he did very little, it seems, other than releasing a video hours later praising the insurrectionists and gently telling them to head home. It appears Capital Police, the FBI and the DC Mayor concerted efforts with the National Guard largely on their own initiative / without much support from the man at the top.

Other Congresspeople called high level White House staff directly and told them to send reinforcements, which eventually arrived.

With Trump in charge there is a real - even if small - safety risk to our Capital that he will not only incite something like this again, but will be slow or even stymie efforts to respond.

What happens if Trump gets ideas from this ... what happens if next time, Trump actively picks up the phone and tells the FBI to stand down? And orders the National Guard to stay away?

It’s dangerous to make an emergency landing when the man in the pilot seat would just as soon see the whole thing crash. Maybe it’s time to throw the maniac out of the cockpit at the last minute so we finally can land this thing in relative safety.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
What happens if Trump gets ideas from this ... what happens if next time, Trump actively picks up the phone and tells the FBI to stand down? And orders the National Guard to stay away?
That is scary. I have some confidence that they would not obey illegal orders (like go arrest Biden and Harris). But I had not considered ordering them to do nothing. That at the very least could lead to a delayed response, and that could be disastrous.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
That is a good point. But once out of office Trump could be banned from social media in a more permanent way, (at this time Trump is banned, but will soon have his access restored).
Looks like Twitter and Facebook have already signalled that they're willing to ban him if he doesn't change his behaviour... and Trump isn't exactly the kind of person who changes his behaviour.

And Pence can only pardon for criminal crimes.
Yes - those are what I'm saying Trump could be pardoned for.

Still you might be right.
If they're going to remove him from office, at least impeach and convict him. That still raises the possibility of a pardon, but at least the Senate can disqualify him from holding federal office ever again.

Remove him under the 25th Amendment and he could take another run at the presidency.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Looks like the left is ignoring the numerous members of the GOP who called out the rioters and requested peace.
I've seen several people on the left praising Mitt Romney's conduct in all of this. Apart from him, we're mostly talking about the same GOP members who egged the rioters on and encouraged this in the first place. They're hypocrites.

Where were all of you when Portland and other cities were getting destroyed?
Where were you when right-wingers broke into the Michigan Capitol and tried to kidnap the governor?
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
This is a good point.

However, here’s why the 25th should be considered. Maybe not used, but considered.

Yesterday, Trump largely abandoned his post in responding to the insurrection. He went back to the WH and watched TV while the rest of the US government was under attack. The Republican House leader frantically called Trump and begged him to do something ... he did very little, it seems, other than releasing a video hours later praising the insurrectionists and gently telling them to head home. It appears Capital Police, the FBI and the DC Mayor concerted efforts with the National Guard largely on their own initiative / without much support from the man at the top.

Other Congresspeople called high level White House staff directly and told them to send reinforcements, which eventually arrived.

With Trump in charge there is a real - even if small - safety risk to our Capital that he will not only incite something like this again, but will be slow or even stymie efforts to respond.

What happens if Trump gets ideas from this ... what happens if next time, Trump actively picks up the phone and tells the FBI to stand down? And orders the National Guard to stay away?

It’s dangerous to make an emergency landing when the man in the pilot seat would just as soon see the whole thing crash. Maybe it’s time to throw the maniac out of the cockpit at the last minute so we finally can land this thing in relative safety.
That's not the situation addressed in the 25th Amendment.

The 25th Amendment is for cases where the President is unable to do the job. Trump isn't unable to do the job; he's able, but just not willing to do it competently. He's also apparently both able and willing to misuse his office.

If removal is what's needed, there's a different mechanism for it: impeachment.

Trump's behaviour over the last few days is a matter of malicious intent, not incompetence.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
That's not the situation addressed in the 25th Amendment.

The 25th Amendment is for cases where the President is unable to do the job. Trump isn't unable to do the job; he's able, but just not willing to do it competently. He's also apparently both able and willing to misuse his office.

If removal is what's needed, there's a different mechanism for it: impeachment.

Trump's behaviour over the last few days is a matter of malicious intent, not incompetence.
25 th Incapable, includes mental breakdown and insanity
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
@fantome profane ’s OP is right. The most sickening thing about all of this.....all of everything in the last four years, everything about yesterday’s assault on our nation’s capital. It was all called, clear as day; play by play; long befor the election in 2016. Trump was a known narcissistic self-serving spoiled and greedy little piece of crap, who was at all times in his life, seen and known as the butt of jokes.
The warning signs didn’t develop over this ruinous presidency. They were always there. Yet millions of deluded American citizens, and the violently ignorant, and anti-American right-wing press who spoon fed them (and their god-king president) all those lies, innuendo, twisted statistics, and other hogwash still refused to acknowledge his lack of fitness for office; and even praised himas a maverick, “outsider” who would set D.C. straight, and clear out the corruption :rolleyes:.

You were warned back then. You were informed time and again, and again, and again. Those warnings were not politically motivated. They were not biased.
They were real.

Now the history of this insurrection and coup attempt is real. The threat Trump still poses to the US, whether in office or out is real. His loyalists in the Senate and the Supreme Court (and many other courts) are real.

What else is real, is that this post will change nothing. His violently ignorant zealot followers, Trump, and his anti-democracy masters in the press (and above the press) will not suddenly “see the light” and take their blinders off to work toward a healthier democracy and USA. :( No. They are willfully against learning from their mistakes. They will continue to be a threat to our country. Violence will not deter them. In fact they will gain power from, and revel in violence.
Cutting their press, and teaching them, and their children, real facts....reality....can, over years and decades, stand as the only chance of making America great again.
May whatever god you believe in be with us.
 
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