pedophilia

[Wherenextcolumbus]

my understanding that pedophilia as a person having sex with the prepubescent. no age limitation. generally, girls has her menstruation in about 12 years, boy gets his wet dream on about 15 years old. human are ready mentally and hormonal as they get menstruation or wet dream. i think it no problem to marry with 12 years old if they mentally and hormonal ready enough to marry.

Plus girls who give birth before the age of 18 are at much higher risk of dying

 

[Pegg]

my point is on menstruation and wet dream, not about age. commonly, females at 12 and males at 15 years old.
i think.

this is about when are they 'adults' and no longer 'children'

A childs body begins to go through 'adolecence' and the functions you mention 'begin'... they are not 'complete' when they first begin though. So the first menstruation is not the beginning of adulthood.

Do you think boys and girls of 12 or 15yrs have finished growing? If a 12 yr old girls body has completed its development, then perhaps it can be called an 'adult' body....but we know that the body does not stop growing at age 12 or 15. It still has more growing to do which means it has not reached 'adulthood'

 

[Me Myself]

Actuallly, no one stops growing exactly by year month day hour minute second when they turn 18. Sme take longer, some take less.

Each person is different. The age was made for the legal purposes.

 

[Pegg]

Actuallly, no one stops growing exactly by year month day hour minute second when they turn 18. Sme take longer, some take less.

Each person is different. The age was made for the legal purposes.

well the lawmakers have no idea what they are talking about then

 

[Me Myself]

well the lawmakers have no idea what they are talking about then

Not really, it is just simpler to regulate. 18 is more or less the age in which most people come to the biological maturity that society wished to designate appropiate for sex.

Do you honestly believe at if someone has sex with a person that is 17years and 364 days old s/he is a pedophile but if he waits a couple more days s/he is not? What about the minutes? They start penetration when one is 17 and when they finish this same one is already 18 was half the sex pedophilic in nature?

 

[Rakhel]

I actually want to play devil's advocate and bring up a question that just occurred to me.

Is maturity generally universal throughout time and culture?

I suppose this is part of the nature vs. nurture argument, in terms of what I'm talking about. Does our safe and easy life in the first world cause our maturity rates to slow? What of people who live in much harsher environments: would the constant threat of death and frequent experience of seeing others die cause one to mature much faster?

I would say that no, age of maturity has not been universal throughout time and culture. I do think that there was a set age at which most parents went, "that is way too young." I also think that age was 10.
We have all heard stories as late as the 19th century when young girls were fending for themselves and their families in the wilds after marrying some poor widower who needed to tend to his farm but couldn't take care of the kids at the same time.
Was it wrong of the widower to take advantage of the young girl?
For our time? yes For their's, probably not.

 

[Rakhel]

well wasn't Mary 13 when she gave birth to Jesus?
Was she mature enough for this responsibility?

We must take everything into perspective and not judge, even history, based on our personal morality.

 

[Father Heathen]

well wasn't Mary 13 when she gave birth to Jesus?
Was she mature enough for this responsibility?

Not even with the magical spin.

We must take everything into perspective and not judge, even history, based on our personal morality.

Right. We should instead judge, even history (and mythology) based on logic and evidense.

 

[Riverwolf]

It's no question that your average 13 year old in modern Western culture is in no position to be raising kids. I think determining whether a 13 year old from 2,000 years ago could be mature enough to raise a child would be to ask a few questions.

What is maturity? After determining this, how can it be measured?
Then, how is maturity gained?

 

[Me Myself]

It's no question that your average 13 year old in modern Western culture is in no position to be raising kids. I think determining whether a 13 year old from 2,000 years ago could be mature enough to raise a child would be to ask a few questions.

What is maturity? After determining this, how can it be measured?
Then, how is maturity gained?

Good questions. I think maturity has to do with accountability and emotional intelligence. This is why I believe people can be mature in some areas and immature in others.

I think there are cultural reasons for which 13 year olds then were more capable of managing a family (een when not as capable as when they fully develop) . One of them is that everyone around them EXPECTS THEM to be. This should not at all be downplayed.

There were simple tasks that they could do to earn money ( and by simple I dont mean easy) or/and food.

In tribes in eth amazonia of Ecuador, men (which includes some teens) hunt and women tend the kids, also can do clay figures to trade for food and do some sipe clothings too.

 

[Pegg]

well wasn't Mary 13 when she gave birth to Jesus?
Was she mature enough for this responsibility?

We must take everything into perspective and not judge, even history, based on our personal morality.

the bible says nothing of her age so we dont know how old she was.

 

[Me Myself]

the bible says nothing of her age so we dont know how old she was.

We know at is the age of most wives of e time though. Around 12 and 14

 

[JustWondering2]

Pretty messed up. So did this woman contact the proper authorities to report this abuse?

Actually no she did not! In fact when the daughter came to her with what happened the mother did not believe her. The daughter confided in a friend who told her mother, she then reported it to the police. When the police confronted the mother with the allegations, she still wouldn't believe it at first, until CPS gave her what she (the mother) referred to as a "choice", either the dad leaves or the daughter, older brother and two younger sisters would be taken away, like it really was a choice!!?? Come to find out the father and his sister were sexually abused by their father who had also abused other young children! There were rumors of this man (the 30 something father of 4) and inappropriate behavior with other young girls as well, that's why I called what he did pedophilia. But the mother (woman I dated) insisted he was not a pedophile, but a sex addict! That's how she justified what he did to his own daughter! Her words were "It was the devil that made him addicted to sex and caused him to do what he did". I found out later that she didn't blame him personally for what happened because she thought he was possessed by the devil when he did what he did. She even implied she would have him back if the law would allow him to live in the same house with her and (at that time) her two school aged daughters.

I think this is a very good case for how blind, fundamentalist belief in anything, religion or otherwise is very un-wise. The mother was a daughter of a southern Baptist preacher. She had a very sheltered, controlled, church/Bible centered upbringing (brainwashing) and very strongly believed that Jesus was the only way. So I guess it's easy to see how forgiving her husband for what he did was so easy for her. But as I told her when I found out about all that had happened, " God may forgive him for what he did, but I nor any other man or woman should, ever!"

OBTW she was a Christian Fundamentalist who believed the only true Love between a man and a woman must come through a belief in Jesus and held the fact that my beliefs were not the same as hers against me! In spite of the fact both of her husbands were so called "believers", the 1st being a pedophile (who I think she was still in Love with) and the second who she bragged to me "they dated for a year and never had sex until their wedding night" threatened to divorce her after being married only 2 months moved out 2 months later and divorced her after being married less than 6 months!!??

 

[Me Myself]

Actually no she did not! In fact when the daughter came to her with what happened the mother did not believe her. The daughter confided in a friend who told her mother, she then reported it to the police. When the police confronted the mother with the allegations, she still wouldn't believe it at first, until CPS gave her what she (the mother) referred to as a "choice", either the dad leaves or the daughter, older brother and two younger sisters would be taken away, like it really was a choice!!?? Come to find out the father and his sister were sexually abused by their father who had also abused other young children! There were rumors of this man (the 30 something father of 4) and inappropriate behavior with other young girls as well, that's why I called what he did pedophilia. But the mother (woman I dated) insisted he was not a pedophile, but a sex addict! That's how she justified what he did to his own daughter! Her words were "It was the devil that made him addicted to sex and caused him to do what he did". I found out later that she didn't blame him personally for what happened because she thought he was possessed by the devil when he did what he did. She even implied she would have him back if the law would allow him to live in the same house with her and (at that time) her two school aged daughters.

I think this is a very good case for how blind, fundamentalist belief in anything, religion or otherwise is very un-wise. The mother was a daughter of a southern Baptist preacher. She had a very sheltered, controlled, church/Bible centered upbringing (brainwashing) and very strongly believed that Jesus was the only way. So I guess it's easy to see how forgiving her husband for what he did was so easy for her. But as I told her when I found out about all that had happened, " God may forgive him for what he did, but I nor any other man or woman should, ever!"

OBTW she was a Christian Fundamentalist who believed the only true Love between a man and a woman must come through a belief in Jesus and held the fact that my beliefs were not the same as hers against me! In spite of the fact both of her husbands were so called "believers", the 1st being a pedophile (who I think she was still in Love with) and the second who she bragged to me "they dated for a year and never had sex until their wedding night" threatened to divorce her after being married only 2 months moved out 2 months later and divorced her after being married less than 6 months!!??

For what I read he was an ***** but it is not called pedophilia in psychology unless it is attraction for the prepubecent. I think it even has to be exclusive (may be wrong on that)

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Actually no she did not! In fact when the daughter came to her with what happened the mother did not believe her. The daughter confided in a friend who told her mother, she then reported it to the police. When the police confronted the mother with the allegations, she still wouldn't believe it at first, until CPS gave her what she (the mother) referred to as a "choice", either the dad leaves or the daughter, older brother and two younger sisters would be taken away, like it really was a choice!!?? Come to find out the father and his sister were sexually abused by their father who had also abused other young children! There were rumors of this man (the 30 something father of 4) and inappropriate behavior with other young girls as well, that's why I called what he did pedophilia. But the mother (woman I dated) insisted he was not a pedophile, but a sex addict! That's how she justified what he did to his own daughter! Her words were "It was the devil that made him addicted to sex and caused him to do what he did". I found out later that she didn't blame him personally for what happened because she thought he was possessed by the devil when he did what he did. She even implied she would have him back if the law would allow him to live in the same house with her and (at that time) her two school aged daughters.

I think this is a very good case for how blind, fundamentalist belief in anything, religion or otherwise is very un-wise. The mother was a daughter of a southern Baptist preacher. She had a very sheltered, controlled, church/Bible centered upbringing (brainwashing) and very strongly believed that Jesus was the only way. So I guess it's easy to see how forgiving her husband for what he did was so easy for her. But as I told her when I found out about all that had happened, " God may forgive him for what he did, but I nor any other man or woman should, ever!"

OBTW she was a Christian Fundamentalist who believed the only true Love between a man and a woman must come through a belief in Jesus and held the fact that my beliefs were not the same as hers against me! In spite of the fact both of her husbands were so called "believers", the 1st being a pedophile (who I think she was still in Love with) and the second who she bragged to me "they dated for a year and never had sex until their wedding night" threatened to divorce her after being married only 2 months moved out 2 months later and divorced her after being married less than 6 months!!??

What a terribly sad and horrific story.

 

[JustWondering2]

What a terribly sad and horrific story.

Yes I agree 100%. And to think I fell deeply and madly in Love with this woman before I learned all of this! Before I found out, I could not imagine why her second daughter was so against me and treated me so badly. I've always been someone that was pretty easy to get to know and have hardly ever met someone I couldn't make friends with or at least get along with, but Katie (her daughter) was an exception. In fact she would hardly even speak to me and if she did it was condescending and dis-respectful at best. I found out about the father when I pressed the issue of Katie's attitude to her mother (Dorothy). She (Katie) hated all men her mother attracted because of her past. By the way she also hated me because I did not fall into her definition of a "believer", whatever the hell that is?
Needless to say, my relationship with this woman caused me much heartache and pain, not mention almost costing me my life! I have been in a fair number of loving relationships that for one reason or the other have not worked out in my 60 years of life. But I never in my life have been deceived, flat out lied to, dis-respected, taken advantage of, mislead, disappointed by ....... just in general hurt, you name it, such as this woman did to me!! Talk about never learning or at least ignoring the golden Rule, this lady was the champ! Yet she claims to be a "Believer" and hold herself above others that in her words are not "GODLY"!

Sorry! I'll step down off my soap box now.... :run:

But know this about what I have said; it is the honest to God truth. :yes:

 

[JustWondering2]

OBTW Because of my experience with her and her family anytime I here words come out of peoples mouths about them being a "believer" I doubt and distrust anything they say from that point forward. Also she hardened my heart to the point I have a very hard time trusting anyone outside my close family and my children now!

 

[Father Heathen]

Actually no she did not! In fact when the daughter came to her with what happened the mother did not believe her. The daughter confided in a friend who told her mother, she then reported it to the police. When the police confronted the mother with the allegations, she still wouldn't believe it at first, until CPS gave her what she (the mother) referred to as a "choice", either the dad leaves or the daughter, older brother and two younger sisters would be taken away, like it really was a choice!!?? Come to find out the father and his sister were sexually abused by their father who had also abused other young children! There were rumors of this man (the 30 something father of 4) and inappropriate behavior with other young girls as well, that's why I called what he did pedophilia. But the mother (woman I dated) insisted he was not a pedophile, but a sex addict! That's how she justified what he did to his own daughter! Her words were "It was the devil that made him addicted to sex and caused him to do what he did". I found out later that she didn't blame him personally for what happened because she thought he was possessed by the devil when he did what he did. She even implied she would have him back if the law would allow him to live in the same house with her and (at that time) her two school aged daughters.

I think this is a very good case for how blind, fundamentalist belief in anything, religion or otherwise is very un-wise. The mother was a daughter of a southern Baptist preacher. She had a very sheltered, controlled, church/Bible centered upbringing (brainwashing) and very strongly believed that Jesus was the only way. So I guess it's easy to see how forgiving her husband for what he did was so easy for her. But as I told her when I found out about all that had happened, " God may forgive him for what he did, but I nor any other man or woman should, ever!"

OBTW she was a Christian Fundamentalist who believed the only true Love between a man and a woman must come through a belief in Jesus and held the fact that my beliefs were not the same as hers against me! In spite of the fact both of her husbands were so called "believers", the 1st being a pedophile (who I think she was still in Love with) and the second who she bragged to me "they dated for a year and never had sex until their wedding night" threatened to divorce her after being married only 2 months moved out 2 months later and divorced her after being married less than 6 months!!??

It would've taken all my willpower to refrain from giving her five across the eyes. Also, how could she have been given a choice? The guy should've been locked up and the children removed regardless of her wants and wishes. In fact she herself should've been locked up as well for aiding and abiding such a horrendous crime. That's one of the problems with religion; it allows horrible people to see themselves as "good".

 

[Alceste]

Just a general comment - I don't think it's black and white. It's not like one day it's pedophilia and the next it's perfectly healthy. There's a great big window of pervy, creepy, gross and psychologically disturbed in between that includes anyone who thinks a girl is ready for sex as soon as she starts menstruating, or that a boy is ready when his voice starts to crack. The greater the age difference, the higher the creep value.

 

[JustWondering2]

It would've taken all my willpower to refrain from giving her five across the eyes. Also, how could she have been given a choice? The guy should've been locked up and the children removed regardless of her wants and wishes. In fact she herself should've been locked up as well for aiding and abiding such a horrendous crime. That's one of the problems with religion; it allows horrible people to see themselves as "good".

Oh believe me I feel the same way! I was all I could do to keep from giving them both an *** kicking. OBTW she actually allow him to have limited visitation with her two youngest daughters!! She and her family (and his of course) even pleaded with the judge to not put him in jail. Her reasoning was "a bad daddy is better than no daddy" How messed up is that!!??