Penalty asked for doctor who spoke of 10-year-old's abortion

[SomeRandom]

The name of the girl hasn't been disclosed so nobody's privacy has been violated.

Yes but details still have to be kept to a minimum. If only to prevent the girl being re-traumatised by hearing it on the news later. And like I said, to prevent the rapist from trying to claim media interference.

They can’t say more than an abortion has occurred and the age of the victim. By law. Ours are just as strict here

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes but details still have to be kept to a minimum. If only to prevent the girl being re-traumatised by hearing it on the news later. And like I said, to prevent the rapist from trying to claim media interference.

They can’t say more than an abortion has occurred and the age of the victim. By law. Ours as just as strict here

That's a good point, but in post #41, I highlighted that often confidentiality and privacy are what keeps crimes hidden. For years, often.

 

[SomeRandom]

That's a good point, but in post #41, I highlighted that often confidentiality and privacy are what keep crimes hidden. For years, often.

Whilst that is true. It’s a bit more “complicated” when one chooses to involve the media. And it gets even more hairy when the victim is a minor.

The public should be told, obviously. But one has to be quite careful in just what one divulges. There’s a lot of thorns one has to be aware of, if you get me?

 

[HonestJoe]

In the United States whenever it deals with crimes of sexual nature, people are secretive. Too secretive.
Whenever it deals with mass shootings or first degree murder, they disclose every detail of the crime, its victims and its perpetrators.

Too secretive for what exactly? There is a limited amount of information in the public domain but you keep talking about cases being covered up as a result yet that is definitively not what happened here. This case was apparently reported to the appropriate legal authorities when the girls pregnancy was first discovered by the Ohio doctor, which is why the legal process is ongoing. Ironically, there would be much less media attention if it hadn't been for the abortion-law aspect and I doubt you or I would have even heard about it but it would have still been reported by the doctor and the legal process around the rape would still be ongoing.

I would argue that the mass media (and increasingly social media) are too quick and eager to publish as much detail as possible about high-profile crimes, often based on speculation, political bias or illegally accessed information. As a result, early reports and claims are often wrong, yet so often continue to be propagated and lead to unjustified doubt and distrust when the actual truth comes to light.

And it's worth noting that lots of people (public and media) demanded or sought out more details about this case, not in the context of the rape but to try to discredit the Indiana doctor who raised the issue with the Ohio abortion laws. The desire to know more about cases like this isn't often as positively motivated one (even if we're not conscious of that).

Whenever it deals with sex, Americans are secretive. They don't tell anything.

There is definitely a major element of taboo surrounding anything involving sex, especially in the US (and here in the UK for that matter) and it does negatively impact rape and sexual assault cases. That is a fact of life though, and the protection of the privacy of victims and suspects remains important because of that. The idea that all the sordid details of this girls rape being splashed all over the tabloids, TV and internet would be any kind of improvement to that is ridiculous though.

We can't address the taboo around sex and victims of sexual crimes in the context of high-profile and extreme cases. That needs to be done in the quite calm of normal day-to-day life. Part of the problem is that we don't talk about all of the issues and factors that lead to cases like this other than when extreme high-profile examples are reported (or the spin, exaggeration and misinformation around them is reported).

 

[Estro Felino]

Too secretive for what exactly? There is a limited amount of information in the public domain but you keep talking about cases being covered up as a result yet that is definitively not what happened here. This case was apparently reported to the appropriate legal authorities when the girls pregnancy was first discovered by the Ohio doctor, which is why the legal process is ongoing. Ironically, there would be much less media attention if it hadn't been for the abortion-law aspect and I doubt you or I would have even heard about it but it would have still been reported by the doctor and the legal process around the rape would still be ongoing.

I would argue that the mass media (and increasingly social media) are too quick and eager to publish as much detail as possible about high-profile crimes, often based on speculation, political bias or illegally accessed information. As a result, early reports and claims are often wrong, yet so often continue to be propagated and lead to unjustified doubt and distrust when the actual truth comes to light.

And it's worth noting that lots of people (public and media) demanded or sought out more details about this case, not in the context of the rape but to try to discredit the Indiana doctor who raised the issue with the Ohio abortion laws. The desire to know more about cases like this isn't often as positively motivated one (even if we're not conscious of that).

There is definitely a major element of taboo surrounding anything involving sex, especially in the US (and here in the UK for that matter) and it does negatively impact rape and sexual assault cases. That is a fact of life though, and the protection of the privacy of victims and suspects remains important because of that. The idea that all the sordid details of this girls rape being splashed all over the tabloids, TV and internet would be any kind of improvement to that is ridiculous though.

We can't address the taboo around sex and victims of sexual crimes in the context of high-profile and extreme cases. That needs to be done in the quite calm of normal day-to-day life. Part of the problem is that we don't talk about all of the issues and factors that lead to cases like this other than when extreme high-profile examples are reported (or the spin, exaggeration and misinformation around them is reported).

Thank you for acknowledging the peculiar relationship between Americans and sex . I really appreciate it.
I give you the example of my country. Here there is a law that makes abortion a right, but the law specifies it cannot be used as birth control method.
Which means that women are obliged to avoid unwanted pregnancies with all the contraceptives possible, available on the market. But if they get pregnant despite the contraceptives, well...they can get an abortion.
So a woman can get one or two abortions in her life, but never six or seven.

In order to ascertain that women don't use abortion as birth control method, the pregnant patient needs to undergo a psychological or psychiatrical visit first (paid for by the State).
At least one.

A 20 year old girl complained once on national TV saying that the pre-abortion psychologist, a woman in her 60s, looked down on her, asking her all the time how she could get pregnant in 2020s, with all the contraceptives available. With a reprimanding attitude.
She interrogated her as if she were a police officer: she wanted to know how she had been impregnated in detail (I mean...biblically speaking) and who had impregnated her.
She needed to ascertain whether it was a man of her age or whether this man had forced her into having sex.

That's because we are not secretive about sex at all. But thanks to this procedure, the psychologist can ascertain if a woman was raped. An in that case abortion is more justifiable, but the woman will be demanded to sue the rapist.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Of course.
Physicians have the obligation to denounce whenever a 10 year old gets pregnant.
Sex with a minor is illegal in the US and in Europe, and especially if it deals with prepuberal age.

So yes, deontologically, the physician is to be held accountable for not calling law enforcement.

As for telling the press, she has not revealed the name of the victim, so nobody's privacy has been violated.

Law enforcement had already been told and were investigating, prior to the doctors involvement. So further no further notification was necessary. The doctor acted entirely within the law.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

We are dealing with a mother who was in relationship with a man. This man raped her daughter and got her pregnant.
This story is utterly horrific and utterly disgusting.
But I guess the most disgusting aspect is the cover-up.
Because people have the right to know. Criminal facts are not private.
Criminal law is a branch of public law.

in most countries the details of ongoing criminals proceedings are protected and can not be reported.
In the case of children this protection is far wider.

 

[Revoltingest]

In the United States the most heinous crimes are committed because people don't care.
People mind their own businesses.

In Italy, people care about victims.
That's why they assault each other in private.
Opinion | Enduring a brutal assault by a taxi driver, Canadian woman becomes the face of violence against women in Italy

For example...a man rapes his own daughter, he gets her pregnant...the she forces her to have an abortion...so the genetic evidence of the crime is gone forever.
After the abortion, he resumes the raping schedule.

You have quite the imagination.

And the physician? The physician doesn't ask, doesn't tell.

You don't know that about this situation...or any other.

Because you know...American physicians value the patient-doctor confidentiality.

Docs do report child abuse, but there are hideous
consequences when they get it wrong. So there
is some reluctance.
Because they do report, parents must be careful
if there are any false signs of child abuse, eg...
Mongolian spot - Wikipedia
Parents need to ensure that their pediatricians
& caregivers are educated about it before any
interaction.

Light years from what we do things here. We do everything aboveboard.
No secrecy.

It sounds like Italy has never been ready to enjoy privacy rights.
Massive investigation in Italy combating online child sexual abuse | Europol
The Marocchinate: Rapes of Italy
Two British girls gang-raped while on vacation in Italy

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Who's we?

What is that supposed to mean. There's is no we. It is were....

 

[Estro Felino]

in most countries the details of ongoing criminals proceedings are protected and can not be reported.
In the case of children this protection is far wider.

Nobody disclosed the name of the girl.
This is the umpteenth time I am saying it in this thread.

 

[Revoltingest]

By publishing these links, you do me a favor.
Because it's all examples I perfectly recall...
I perfectly remember that the media here reported in detail what the rapists did to the girls.
In detail.
Because we are not prude when it deals with sex.
We expose the rapists' names...we disclose any detail...especially if they are illegal migrants.

So much sexual violence there.
I understand why you don't value privacy.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nobody disclosed the name of the girl.
This is the umpteenth time I am saying it in this thread.

Do you want her name & personal details disclosed?

 

[Estro Felino]

So much sexual violence there.
I understand why you don't value privacy.

After the Left opened the doors to illegals, probably.
But not like Sweden.

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you want her name & personal details disclosed?

What I meant is that you can disclose any detail about the rape...because nobody knows the name of the girl.
It's Miss X.

 

[Revoltingest]

@Revoltingest

I just asked you to acknowledge that Americans are secretive whenever it deals with sex.
Whenever it deals with crimes of sexual nature.

I really have no basis to compare USA
with many other countries in that regard.
Although we're certainly more open than
Islamic countries.

Because when it deals with first degree murders or mass shooting, they disclose even the most insignificant detail. And even the most irrelevant name.

You might've missed the fact that information
about minors is more shrouded in protective
privacy. Do you oppose this?

 

[Revoltingest]

After the Left opened the doors to illegals, probably.
But not like Sweden.

Blaming yer crime rate on ferriners, eh.
Some might say that immigrants relate
to a reduction in crime.
Has immigration really led to an increase in crime in Italy?
You guys have the reputation of a hot
blooded people, who are also prone
to embracing every fascist leader who
comes along.
Perhaps your immigrants are a moderating
influence, eh.

 

[Estro Felino]

Blaming yer crime rate on ferriners, eh.
Some might say that immigrants relate
to a reduction in crime.
Has immigration really led to an increase in crime in Italy?
You guys have the reputation of a hot
blooded people, who are also prone
to embracing every fascist leader who
comes along.
Perhaps your immigrants are a moderating
influence, eh.

We are the nation with the lowest birth rates in Europe, and with the lowest abortion rates.
The statistics say that most abortions are performed on foreign women.
Aborti in aumento solo fra le straniere (ovvero: la precaria salute riproduttiva delle donne immigrate in Italia) • Neodemos.

 

[Revoltingest]

What I meant is that you can disclose any detail about the rape...because nobody knows the name of the girl.
It's Miss X.

I'd prefer that info be scanty.
If she's ever doxed, TMI would be painful.
We should care about her welfare more
than satisfying personal curiosity.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'd prefer that info be scanty.
If she's ever doxed, TMI would be painful.
We should care about her welfare more
than satisfying personal curiosity.

Speaking of curiosity, read post #45.

 

[Revoltingest]

We have the nation with the lowest birth rates in Europe, and with the lowest abortion rates.
The statistics say that most abortions are performed on foreign women.

Why, in your opinion?
A) Italians don't have sex
B) They have sex but use contraceptives
C) They are sterile

Italians appear to be a weak & un-fecund people.
This is likely due to their rather singsong language.

 

[Revoltingest]

Speaking of curiosity, read post #45.

TLTR.

 

[Estro Felino]

TLTR.

A 20 year old girl complained once on national TV saying that the pre-abortion psychologist, a woman in her 60s, looked down on her, asking her all the time how she could get pregnant in 2020s, with all the contraceptives available. With a reprimanding attitude.
She interrogated her as if she were a police officer: she wanted to know how she had been impregnated in detail (I mean...biblically speaking) and who had impregnated her.
She needed to ascertain whether it was a man of her age or whether this man had forced her into having sex.

 

[Revoltingest]

A 20 year old girl complained once on national TV saying that the pre-abortion psychologist, a woman in her 60s, looked down on her, asking her all the time how she could get pregnant in 2020s, with all the contraceptives available. With a reprimanding attitude.

I'll wager the "psychologist" was an anti-abortion fundie.

She interrogated her as if she were a police officer: she wanted to know how she had been impregnated in detail (I mean...biblically speaking) and who had impregnated her.
She needed to ascertain whether it was a man of her age or whether this man had forced her into having sex.

Wrong person for the job.
It happens sometimes.