People don't seem to understand faith

[1137]

Most recently with some "new atheists" I realized that they deteriorate to the level of beasts when you tell them that everyone has faith and belief. People seem to think that faith and blind acceptance / belief are one in the same, yet faith is simply about deep trust. Evidence is not a factor in the definition. You tell some people they have faith in science and they will freak out.

My question is why this happens. What's so wrong about faith? My theory is these individuals cannot evolve past the original rebellion and just associate faith with religious beliefs, beliefs that must be rejected for them to develop a new sense of Self. They ironically become the same thing that they hate, in this and other ways.

 

[bobhikes]

Most recently with some "new atheists" I realized that they deteriorate to the level of beasts when you tell them that everyone has faith and belief. People seem to think that faith and blind acceptance / belief are one in the same, yet faith is simply about deep trust. Evidence is not a factor in the definition. You tell some people they have faith in science and they will freak out.

My question is why this happens. What's so wrong about faith? My theory is these individuals cannot evolve past the original rebellion and just associate faith with religious beliefs, beliefs that must be rejected for them to develop a new sense of Self. They ironically become the same thing that they hate, in this and other ways.

In my opinion, nothing is wrong with faith. It is what starts everything. You have to have faith in self. You have to have faith in idea's. You have to have faith in ability. Then you can follow scientific method and prove something or you can then believe something.

 

[Thruve]

I concur.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Most recently with some "new atheists" I realized that they deteriorate to the level of beasts when you tell them that everyone has faith and belief. People seem to think that faith and blind acceptance / belief are one in the same, yet faith is simply about deep trust. Evidence is not a factor in the definition. You tell some people they have faith in science and they will freak out.

My question is why this happens. What's so wrong about faith? My theory is these individuals cannot evolve past the original rebellion and just associate faith with religious beliefs, beliefs that must be rejected for them to develop a new sense of Self. They ironically become the same thing that they hate, in this and other ways.

Faith may mean many different things. What gets me is when a person has absolutely no argument left and they say 'it's a matter of faith." Kind of seems to me they are saying they got nothing but blind adherence to a belief without anything but vague faith. When I have a 'belief' not founded on facts or evidence, I call it an opinion and am the first to admit that it is held tentatively. Those that call their unfounded beliefs matters of faith, will not admit it is a tentative belief.

 

[Mycroft]

I have faith. I have faith in my fellow human and our ability to eventually come together to solve all problems and answer all questions and penetrate all mysteries. And I have a belief that we don't require a god to achieve these things.

Conversely I have noticed from a lot of religious people that they cling to certain ideas about the nature of god and the universe and, when that happens, that person has no faith at all.

 

[Bunyip]

1137

When you say that atheists ' deteriorate to the level of beasts', you mean 'disagree' right?

So if I (like I'm sure many others have done) politely point out that you are simply mistaken because 'faith' does not mean trustin this context - then for some reason I am being beastly?

Toughen up.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

1137

When you say that atheists ' deteriorate to the level of beasts', you mean 'disagree' right?

So if I (like I'm sure many others have done) politely point out that you are simply mistaken because 'faith' does not mean trustin this context - then for some reason I am being beastly?

Toughen up.

It was specified neo-atheists, not atheists in general.

 

[Bunyip]

It was specified neo-atheists, not atheists in general.

Still not sure how you get to the level of beasts in a theological discussion. Dawkins is often described as rabid and yetis abput as calm, kind and grandfatherly as one could be.

I dislike the myth of the bogey-atheist.

The term 'New Atheism' was coined for a magazine article, none of the people it described are in any way beastlike, nor do they behave badly.

I have seen countless TV evangelists literally frothing at the mouth and speaking in tongues - but when an atheist politely challenges any ofthese ancient fallacies he is acting like an animal apparently.

 

[Mycroft]

'Faith' in terms of religion is, and always will be, the process of being satisifed with the absence of evidence and satisfied with non-answers to questions.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

'Faith' in terms of religion is, and always will be, the process of being satisifed with the absence of evidence and satisfied with non-answers to questions.

Thanks! That is the clearest description of faith I have heard.

 

[outhouse]

. Evidence is not a factor in the definition. .

Actually it is.

Faith is belief in the light of no evidence

 

[Mycroft]

The OP was right: People don't understand faith. Including the OP.

 

[columbus]

Most recently with some "new atheists" I realized that they deteriorate to the level of beasts when you tell them that everyone has faith and belief. People seem to think that faith and blind acceptance / belief are one in the same, yet faith is simply about deep trust. Evidence is not a factor in the definition. You tell some people they have faith in science and they will freak out.

My question is why this happens. What's so wrong about faith? My theory is these individuals cannot evolve past the original rebellion and just associate faith with religious beliefs, beliefs that must be rejected for them to develop a new sense of Self. They ironically become the same thing that they hate, in this and other ways.

I understand faith.
Faith is what people believe out of preference. Knowledge is what people believe because the evidence is solid. That's the difference between faith and knowledge.

Knowledge is beliefs based on evidence. Faith is beliefs based on preference.

For instance, it doesn't matter whether you prefer to believe that the earth orbits the sun. The evidence is solid. Most people believe in some prophet. Not because the evidence is strong, but because they prefer that the prophet has credibility.


Tom

 

[1137]

1137

When you say that atheists ' deteriorate to the level of beasts', you mean 'disagree' right?

So if I (like I'm sure many others have done) politely point out that you are simply mistaken because 'faith' does not mean trustin this context - then for some reason I am being beastly?

Toughen up.

I have no problem with disagreement. To answer the question you fallaciously, ignorantly, and aggressively attempted to answer your self, I mean people kicking and screaming against evidence and or definitions because they don't fit with their beliefs, just like you and the concept of "faith". We can redefine anything any way you want to, but then what would be the point of talking?

You do provide a great example to the OP though, so thank you.

 

[1137]

Actually it is.

Faith is belief in the light of no evidence

The OP was right: People don't understand faith. Including the OP.

Sadly I do understand faith. The problem has numerous causes however. For example, people say faith lacks evidence. You have faith that if you text you best friend in a time of need they'll respond. You have faith that you'll survive another day every time you make plans. These are not unfounded at all. "Fideism" is the rejection of evidence in favor of faith, pure faith, with no care to evidence. Faith is stuck somewhere in between.

I feel like we really should start teaching logic sooner than college as an option course.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Still not sure how you get to the level of beasts in a theological discussion. Dawkins is often described as rabid and yetis abput as calm, kind and grandfatherly as one could be.

I dislike the myth of the bogey-atheist.

Dawkins is very rude. I'm surprised you haven't noticed that. His empathy comes after his anti-theism, causing discomfort to people who are in desperate need of hope. Okay, one could make an argument that says it isn't psychotically bad, and I agree.

There are many examples, if you'd like more just ask.

Another way he is rude is how he pokes fun at people who disagree with him:
“It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that).” - Dawkins

That's no argument, that is just bashing. I'm not saying making fun of beliefs is wrong, but in a limited sense where it does not rely on bringing them down completely. This is bullying - publicly embarrassing a group of people, bringing down the confidence level of people. The ones he made fun of have no way to counter because there was no argument! Simply mocking.

I have seen countless TV evangelists literally frothing at the mouth and speaking in tongues - but when an atheist politely challenges any ofthese ancient fallacies he is acting like an animal apparently.

No collective group is free from imperfection. Often times, though, the imperfection is only recognized from the exterior, the group is mostly unaware of the flaw. This isn't always true, though.

 

[1137]

I'll help you guys out so we can get on track.

Knowledge
facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
"a thirst for knowledge"
synonyms: understanding, comprehension, grasp, command, mastery

Faith
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction; More

Fideism
the doctrine that knowledge depends on faith or revelation.

Fideism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bunyip]

I have no problem with disagreement. To answer the question you fallaciously, ignorantly, and aggressively attempted to answer your self, I mean people kicking and screaming against evidence and or definitions because they don't fit with their beliefs, just like you and the concept of "faith". We can redefine anything any way you want to, but then what would be the point of talking?

You do provide a great example to the OP though, so thank you.

You prove my point. I was am not at all aggressive, fallacious or ignorant - nor
am I or any others 'kicking and screaming'.

The truth is simply that the word faith has a meaning specific to the context of religion.

 

[Bunyip]

Dawkins is very rude. I'm surprised you haven't noticed that. His empathy comes after his anti-theism, causing discomfort to people who are in desperate need of hope. Okay, one could make an argument that says it isn't psychotically bad, and I agree.

There are many examples, if you'd like more just ask.

Another way he is rude is how he pokes fun at people who disagree with him:
“It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that).” - Dawkins

That's no argument, that is just bashing. I'm not saying making fun of beliefs is wrong, but in a limited sense where it does not rely on bringing them down completely. This is bullying - publicly embarrassing a group of people, bringing down the confidence level of people. The ones he made fun of have no way to counter because there was no argument! Simply mocking.



No collective group is free from imperfection. Often times, though, the imperfection is only recognized from the exterior, the group is mostly unaware of the flaw. This isn't always true, though.

Sheesh mate, Dawkins is a lamb. Talk about over-reacting. He is not bullying anyone - nobody is forced to attend his lectures, they pay to see them.

 

[Thana]

Faith, to me, Doesn't have a clear cut definition or meaning. It can be many things to many people, Though it's unfortunate that there is a lack of understanding concerning religious faith/beliefs, I'm surprised since most of you have been on this forum for so long but still don't seem to understand.

Nonetheless, I have met a few Atheists that freak at the word 'Faith' being directed at them. And I'd say your observations are accurate for those types of Atheists.