People don't seem to understand faith

[1137]

Ah, well in a hope to move this discussion along, perhaps you would be so kind as to submit something in which you have faith, in which you do not also have observational experience.

You can't possibly be that thick. Use the example I already gave. Based on experience and trial / error I have faith my friend will respond to a text of mine.

We can go bigger and say I have faith that objective reality exists based on extensive experience. However, it's never going to be a certainty, as you know if you've spent 5 seconds of your life studying knowledge. To not have faith in it would render life impossible though, stuck in a realm of absolute skepticism with no hope of any sense.

 

[1137]

Criticise Dawkins all you like, why would I care.

If you wish to portray a very successful scientist as a slavering moron, that reflects on your biases not mine.

Straw man. We have nothing further to discuss as I do not adhere to scripture.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Yeah, you think that me believing my friend will respond to a text is somehow current, present experience of him returning a text, and I'm the riot? Hahaha. You fundamentalists are so cute.

Again misrepresenting what others say does not make your argument any stronger. Or perhaps you are not misrepresenting so much as failing to comprehend what I said.

 

[1137]

Again misrepresenting what others say does not make your argument any stronger. Or perhaps you are not misrepresenting so much as failing to comprehend what I said.

I'm sorry, you're the one who said it's experience, not faith.

Honestly I don't debate the unmovably "religious" though. Apologies.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

You can't possibly be that thick. Use the example I already gave. Based on experience and trial / error I have faith my friend will respond to a text of mine.

We can go bigger and say I have faith that objective reality exists based on extensive experience. However, it's never going to be a certainty, as you know if you've spent 5 seconds of your life studying knowledge. To not have faith in it would render life impossible though, stuck in a realm of absolute skepticism with no hope of any sense.

Haha, you must argue with a mirror, if you tend to find yourself arguing with beasts.

So, you cannot give me an example of your so called faith apart from that which you have past experience.

 

[1137]

Haha, you must argue with a mirror, if you tend to find yourself arguing with beasts.

So, you cannot give me an example of your so called faith apart from that which your past experience.

Actually I've given multiple now. Goodbye.

 

[Bunyip]

Straw man. We have nothing further to discuss as I do not adhere to scripture.

Honestly buddy, I can't see what it is that is confusing you here - as I said, look in any dictionary and you will see that 'faith' in the context of religion means belief without evidence.

My apologies for my animalistic brutality in suggesting so violently that you should look up the word in question in a dictionary, BEFORE starting a thread about how others so viciously apply the commonly accepted definition.

 

[1137]

Honestly buddy, I can't see what it is that is confusing you here - as I said, look in any dictionary and you will see that 'faith' in the context of religion means belief without evidence.

My apologies for my animalistic brutality in suggesting so violently that you should look up the word in question in a dictionary.

Definition:
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

Do other definitions accept the religious definition given in scripture, with lacking evidence and such? Yes. As I've said repeatedly now I go for the more objective and will not adhere to a scriptural definition of something simply because "it says so in the bible". I do not follow that line of thought in any situation.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Actually I've given multiple now. Goodbye.

You have give zero. Not one. Zilch! Nada. Basically the same as you've given support for anything you have to say.

The one thing that is obvious is why you have a high frequency of dealing with beasts. You seem to have the mannerisms that would go a long way in creating them. Best wishes to you!

 

[1137]

Definition:
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

Do other definitions accept the religious definition given in scripture, with lacking evidence and such? Yes. As I've said repeatedly now I go for the more objective and will not adhere to a scriptural definition of something simply because "it says so in the bible". I do not follow that line of thought in any situation.

Unless talking from within the frame of a certain religion, of course. However, if you are indeed a " new atheist" it fits that you'd pick on Christianity and consider yourself to have successfully challenged all religions. Sadly though the line of thought does not interest me and doesn't yeild new information.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Definition:
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

So my belief that 2+2=4 is ... faith?

 

[1137]

You have give zero. Not one. Zilch! Nada. Basically the same as you've given support for anything you have to say.

The one thing that is obvious is why you have a high frequency of dealing with beasts. You seem to have the mannerisms that would go a long way in creating them. Best wishes to you!

1. I have faith (complete trust or confidence in someone or something) that my friend will respond to a text.

2. I have faith (complete trust or confidence in someone or something)/that there is an objective reality outside my mind.

Why can't I just ignore fundamentalists? Seriously, why do I feel the need to respond to you? Even with degrees I haven't figured that one out. Ignore list it is.

 

[1137]

So my belief that 2+2=4 is ... faith?

*sigh*, **** me for responding.

There's no situation where 2+2=!4. If you think there's no possibility of someone not texting you back then your dogmatic anti-theism has gotten you to delusions beyond what I can do here. Now I can easily ignore you.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

*sigh*, **** me for responding.

There's no situation where 2+2=!4. If you think there's no possibility of someone not texting you back then your dogmatic anti-theism has gotten you to delusions beyond what I can do here. Now I can easily ignore you.

LOL, you're the one that said faith is complete trust or confidence in someone or something. If that is not what you meant, then you should not have repeated it so many times. Again, I hope you find the help you so obviously need.

 

[El Blimpo]

Most recently with some "new atheists" I realized that they deteriorate to the level of beasts when you tell them that everyone has faith and belief. People seem to think that faith and blind acceptance / belief are one in the same, yet faith is simply about deep trust. Evidence is not a factor in the definition. You tell some people they have faith in science and they will freak out.

My question is why this happens. What's so wrong about faith? My theory is these individuals cannot evolve past the original rebellion and just associate faith with religious beliefs, beliefs that must be rejected for them to develop a new sense of Self. They ironically become the same thing that they hate, in this and other ways.

What's up dude. This could have been addressed in the thread, I apologize at the outset for skimming. Faith is probably the most conflated word on the planet in these discussions. I exercise faith everyday. Faith that, when I wake up tomorrow and careen to the new coffee maker, it will work. And not have fried my GFI outlet like the old one did. Faith that the bus will show up for my kids, faith that I won't take a shirt off of a hanger in my closet and there won't be a hamster sound asleep in the breast pocket...that sort of thing. Religious faith is not necessarily employed any differently. With the SUPER caveat that it is used to justify just...a whole bunches of things. Problematic behavior? CURE IT WITH FAITH! Is your country headed in the wrong direction? FIX IT WITH FAITH! Cancer? FAITH! Debt? FAITH! It's only with religion that faith becomes a weird sort of evidence. Maybe not evidence...but justifier.

 

[Bunyip]

Definition:
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

Do other definitions accept the religious definition given in scripture, with lacking evidence and such? Yes. As I've said repeatedly now I go for the more objective and will not adhere to a scriptural definition of something simply because "it says so in the bible". I do not follow that line of thought in any situation.

Well what is the point then mate?

You are using a definition of faith that equates to trust - so what? What is the point, given that this is a religious forum and the context here is religion - and the definition in that context is NOT equivalent to trust?

This is a religious forum. You posted in a thread in the religious topics sub forum and yet appear to be unable to grasp why the definition of faith in that context is significant.

 

[1137]

What's up dude. This could have been addressed in the thread, I apologize at the outset for skimming. Faith is probably the most conflated word on the planet in these discussions. I exercise faith everyday. Faith that, when I wake up tomorrow and careen to the new coffee maker, it will work. And not have fried my GFI outlet like the old one did. Faith that the bus will show up for my kids, faith that I won't take a shirt off of a hanger in my closet and there won't be a hamster sound asleep in the breast pocket...that sort of thing. Religious faith is not necessarily employed any differently. With the SUPER caveat that it is used to justify just...a whole bunches of things. Problematic behavior? CURE IT WITH FAITH! Is your country headed in the wrong direction? FIX IT WITH FAITH! Cancer? FAITH! Debt? FAITH! It's only with religion that faith becomes a weird sort of evidence. Maybe not evidence...but justifier.

This is exactly my point, I'm glad someone could say it better.

The thread is skippable

 

[1137]

LOL, you're the one that said faith is complete trust or confidence in someone or something. If that is not what you meant, then you should not have repeated it so many times. Again, I hope you find the help you so obviously need.

Haha I do need help because I can't ignore childish comments like this! This is my last attempt.

I accept the existence of objective reality on faith. I have absolute trust in it despite the philosophical shortcomings. 2+2=4 fits in this, I have no need to doubt it because if we assume objective reality exists then 2+2 will always be 4. However, my friend will not always respond to a text. Based on experience and evidence I have faith he will, I believe he will, but I don't know it.

Apologies but this is philosophy 101 stuff and I'm not willing to dedicate too much more time to it.

 

[El Blimpo]

Fair enough. Thank you.

 

[El Blimpo]

Sorry, I have to jump in. Faith, employed religiously, is really nothing more than postdicting invisible causes. With emotional attachment. That's what makes it a doozy.