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People "protecting marriage": where are you on Monday nights?

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Oh brother.

Like I said, some Christians don't even accept my OWN marriage as legitimate. So what? I don't give a rat's *** what they think.

I will not ever, EVER fight to stop gay marriages from being legally recognized. It's frankly immaterial to me whether they are or not, because it won't change the way I treat gay people - fairly and respectfully and without discrimination.
 

Smoke

Done here.
Like I said, some Christians don't even accept my OWN marriage as legitimate. So what? I don't give a rat's *** what they think.
You don't have to give a rat's ***, because you can enter into a legal marriage regardless of what they think. But you don't think I should be able to regardless of what you think.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
[QUOTEThe "protect marriage" crowd is conspicuously silent on treating marriage as a commodity that can be competed for in the name of ratings.
][/QUOTE]

Not only that but as far as Hollywood I get sick and tired of many of the stars having their faces splashed all over the magazines and news shows going on and on aobut how they have found the perfect soul mate love of their life..HOW IN LOVE WE ARE!!!Then you get to see the pictures of these huge lavish weddings and details of the exotic honeymoons..

Then 6 months a year later you see the same two on the cover of the magaizine with a spit down the middle that says something like .."the honeymoon is over"..or 'splitsville"...

Then LOW and behold you see those same two people BACK on the covers eventually going on and on about finding "true love" once again.

Tom Cruise jumping up and down on Operahs couch screaming YES YES YES!!!!!!!!! IM IN LOVE!!!!! And he is on his 3rd marriage.

Brittiany getting married for 24 hours was a good one too.

What about Jessica Simpson and Nick? Perfect fairy tale marriage the virgin bride the hansome and manly groom.. .Even had a reality t.v show based on their love and marriage.How long did that last? What 2 years?

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Like I said, some Christians don't even accept my OWN marriage as legitimate. So what? I don't give a rat's *** what they think.

Because you have the priveledge to get married as many times as you want.(one person at a time).And not only that you yeah you said "some Christians" but how many millions of Christians to you have the opportunity to be in the company of that are on thier 2nd or 3rd or son on marriage that completely accept your marriage?

The majority of Christians would not condemn your marriage anyway.And not just the ones that are remarried.

I dont think the gay community is asking that any person in particular Christian or otherwise "morally" accept their mariage.I think they are the ones that don't give a rats "***" what you or anyone else thinks.So your comparison to "some Christians" not accepting your marrige really has nothing to do with it.You have the right no matter what some people think or dont think of yoru marital status.

Love

Dallas
 

sonofskeptish

It is what it is
I think all unions should be civil unions and that marriage should be a religious ceremony. And if you want your marriage to take place in a religious community, and you want to live in a religious community, then you can find one that's accepting and supportive, or start your own.

I'll have to review the previous discussions about it, but perhaps you can clarify...

My wife and I were married in a registery office in England. No religious ceremony. Are you saying we are only a civil union, and that this should not be call a "marriage"? I'm okay with that, because I don't want religion to cheapen the union between my wife and I either.

But for homosexuals who want a religious ceremony, are you saying that they should not be allowed to do so, unless they find or move to a faith that's local practicioners are accepting and supportive?

I don't want to debate you, I'm just wondering if I understand your position correctly.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
But for homosexuals who want a religious ceremony, are you saying that they should not be allowed to do so, unless they find or move to a faith that's local practicioners are accepting and supportive?
How is this different from what same-sex marriage advocates usually campaign for: legal civil marriage for same-sex couples, but no church is forced to marry a couple against its beliefs?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Call it a marriage if you like. But for many people, marriage is a religious concept - not just a legal one. It's not right for those people to be forced to accept another definition of a religious belief of theirs.

And for a bunch of those people, that religious concept includes same-sex unions. There are plenty of churches that perform same-sex religious marriages.

Also, no one has to accept anything. By your logic, why should those religious people who do believe in same-sex marriages have to accept the definition that doesn't include them? Think of it like the word "chair". It can mean a piece of furniture that you sit on, and it can mean a person in charge of an organization. Same word, completely different meanings. It's no different with marriage. There's religious marriage, and then there's the civil contract, marriage.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
And for a bunch of those people, that religious concept includes same-sex unions. There are plenty of churches that perform same-sex religious marriages.

Also, no one has to accept anything. By your logic, why should those religious people who do believe in same-sex marriages have to accept the definition that doesn't include them? Think of it like the word "chair". It can mean a piece of furniture that you sit on, and it can mean a person in charge of an organization. Same word, completely different meanings. It's no different with marriage. There's religious marriage, and then there's the civil contract, marriage.

Its already that way amongst heterosexuals.

You ask married heterosexuals "what does marriage mean to you" most of them arent even going to mention the fact its a "legal contract" because that is a GIVEN.

I will tell you ..they will talk about a union sanctioned by God..(or not) they will talk about things such as "give and take" "companionship" "love" .."friendship" 'commitment".."mutual respect" ..

What the gay community is asking for its seems to me is to have the SAME PREVELEDGE for the legalities to be IDENTICLE as one man and one woman have and that be a GIVEN need not even mentioned when you ask THEM what their "definition" of what marriage is.

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Also I will mention..For those that consider marriage a "religious concept"? I doubt they miss the fact that they have all the(non religious) legal rights when they go to divorce court.

Love

Dallas
 

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
Dustin,

Oh, is this going to be yet another thread about gay marriage? Sorry - you'll have to find someone else to play then. I have stated my opinion on that so many times that I am totally, totally bored with the topic.

I'm opposed to any form of marriage being sanctioned by the state. I think all unions should be civil unions and that marriage should be a religious ceremony. And if you want your marriage to take place in a religious community, and you want to live in a religious community, then you can find one that's accepting and supportive, or start your own.

In other words, I believe in the state staying out of mandating religious practices.

That's all I'm going to say about it.

There are over a thousand plus rights and privileges bestowed upon us married folk the moment we say "I do", rights and privileges given, and reinforced, by the State.

If all marriages were a matter of being "civil unions", then married couples could be discriminated against. Hospitals would not be required to provide visitation rights, we would have no power-of-attorney should our spouses become incapacitated, adoption would be a morass of legal paperwork, the spouses of veterans would receive no benefits, there would be no tax breaks to help married people with kids, et cetera ad nauseaum.

Religion indeed plays an important role in many people's lives, so they choose to enact the institution using religious wedding ceremonies and clergy that are duly authorized by the State to be Marriage Officiants. However, religion doesn't own the title to either the term, or practice, of marriage. Never has, never will. Indeed, marriage by clergy was never instilled in the Christian religion until the 1500's, and then only in the Roman Catholic Church.

Atheists, and the religious who do not wish to include either their god, or another religion's god, in their marriage have always been able to attain this g'ment sanctioned, and protected, institution utilizing either judges/justices, who are automatically endowed with a Marriage Officiant certification, or anyone else who has acquired said certification.

And, pray tell, who would conduct wedding ceremonies should your opinion become fact? Clergy only? Whose clergy? Yours only? Yours and mine? Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Wiccan, Druid, Celtic, Asatru, etc clergy as well? What about the Atheists? SOL, tough, use a priest?

What if a spouse is in intensive care and the hospital doesn't recognize your religion, or lack thereof, or your "civil marriage" and refuses you visitation? Do you really think this is fair?
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
So my wife's currently engaged in her weekly habit of watching The Bachelor, but something just occurred to me:

There are plenty of religious groups that have made lots of noise about "protecting the sanctity of marriage" when it suited them. However, consider something like The Bachelor: it effectively turns marriage into the prize on a game show.

I've done Google searches to see if I could find any church or other organization that's spoken out against this show and I couldn't find any. The "protect marriage" crowd is conspicuously silent on treating marriage as a commodity that can be competed for in the name of ratings.

Because the whole idea of not allowing homosexuals to marry has nothing to do with the "sanctity of marriage," but rather is still a widely accepted way to openly, and publicly, express one's homophobia.

Period.
 

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
Well, then, Mestemia, maybe you should attend a Tea Party and voice your frustration with the current administration.

Obama certainly isn't supporting any idea of protecting the rights of gays.

You act like a civil union isn't a possibility. It's a legal contract. Don't see why it wouldn't work for everyone.

Call it a marriage if you like. But for many people, marriage is a religious concept - not just a legal one. It's not right for those people to be forced to accept another definition of a religious belief of theirs.

Personally, I believe that discrimination based on sexual orientation is dead wrong. But that doesn't mean I accept the definition of marriage to include same sex unions. So what? I wouldn't stop anyone from entering into a civil union - or a legally protected union of more than two people (for instance, Mormon unions). To each his own. But just as you don't want my definition of marriage forced on you, I don't want your definition of marriage forced on me.

People act like the concept of civil unions could never work. Hogwash. The real reason for the opposition to that term is that they want to force people to accept their definition of marriage.

I don't care if every gay couple in the world considers my "marriage" to be nothing more than a civil union.

That's all I think the state should determine - whether or not a legally binding and legally protected civil union exists between people.

Sheeze, if the state can mandate and govern the sale of a piece of commercial property (ever been to one of THOSE closings?), they can certainly handle a civil union.

Firstly, civil unions do not approach offering the same thousand plus rights and privileges my wife of over twenty years and I have enjoyed scone the moment we said "i do" (in from of a justice, mind you, where no one's god was mentioned. Our clergy weren't recognized at that time). Civil Unions also do not offer the global spanning rights, privileges, and protections that marriage does. If a couple laboring under this carrot-on-a-stick distraction offered by the anti-gay people leave their home municipality, they may well see the limited rights and privileges evaporate immediately.

Also, separate but equal, besides being an oxymoron, is already a failed social experiment in this country.

Secondly, as noted in my previous reply, marriage is certainly not a "religious concept". In those six states that have dragged themselves out of he draconian, medieval attitude toward gays, the Christian "definition" of marriage has not changed in the least. Christian clergy are still permitted to refuse giving religious marriage ceremonies to same-gendered couples, Christian marriages are totally unaffected, and no one is forced to marry someone of the same gender.

The US is not a theocracy, theonomy, or theodemocracy in any way, shape or form. Christians are certainly free to conduct wedding ceremonies as they see fit, and live within the constraints of what they consider marriage to be. However, Christians have no right to impose their version of marriage on everyone else, and are indeed forbidden from doing so.
 

sonofskeptish

It is what it is
How is this different from what same-sex marriage advocates usually campaign for: legal civil marriage for same-sex couples, but no church is forced to marry a couple against its beliefs?

Perhaps it's not significantly different, but if I was a gay member of religion X and wanted to marry another gay member of religion X in a church, should I:

1. Not be allowed to marry
2. Only be allowed to marry in specific churches of religion X
3. Be allowed to marry in any church belonging to religion X

I think you are suggesting that advocates are lobbying for option 2.

I was hinting at option 3.

In retrospect, if I was gay and planning a religious marriage, despite likely feeling I have a right to option 3, I would probably go with 2... why marry in a hostile environment, and if I wanted to make a spectical (sic?) using my marriage, a game show would be a better venue. ;)
 
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DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Because the whole idea of not allowing homosexuals to marry has nothing to do with the "sanctity of marriage," but rather is still a widely accepted way to openly, and publicly, express one's homophobia.

Period.

Are you sure?


Hmm...could it be they are afraid that if 'we " allow homosexuals to get married then the next thing you know people will be allowed to get married to their dog?

Here is the thing and I've said it before..The "sanctity" of marriage is how you treat your OWN marriage!!!How you view your OWN marrige.What YOUR marriage means to YOU!

And since divorce and remarriage got brought up..

Should I be able to ban 2nd marriages because my religious concept is I believe marriage is for life so anyone that is on their 2nd or 3rd or 8th marriage is ruining the "sanctity" of my marriage because I've only been marreid one time and those others getting to "say they are married" and do it legally are tarnishing the meaning of mine?

Why would Elizabeth Taylor getting married I believe 8 times including twice to one man have anything to do with the "sanctity " of all marriages?Particularly mine?

Love

Dallas
 

sonofskeptish

It is what it is
Are you sure?


Hmm...could it be they are afraid that if 'we " allow homosexuals to get married then the next thing you know people will be allowed to get married to their dog?

Here is the thing and I've said it before..The "sanctity" of marriage is how you treat your OWN marriage!!!How you view your OWN marrige.What YOUR marriage means to YOU!

And since divorce and remarriage got brought up..

Should I be able to ban 2nd marriages because my religious concept is I believe marriage is for life so anyone that is on their 2nd or 3rd or 8th marriage is ruining the "sanctity" of my marriage because I've only been marreid one time and those others getting to "say they are married" and do it legally are tarnishing the meaning of mine?

Why would Elizabeth Taylor getting married I believe 8 times including twice to one man have anything ot do with the "sanctity " of all marriages?Particularly mine?

Love

Dallas

Are you serious? Are you suggesting same-sex marriage may lead to inter-species marriage? If so, your not (only) homophobic, your nuts!
 
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DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Are you serious? Same sex marriage will lead to inter-species marriage? Your not homophobic, your nuts!

Yes..

If "we' allow gay people to get married then next thing you know we will have to allow people to get married to their cockatoo.(first it would start with dogs..then cats next..eventually you could get married to an ant farm)..It woudl just NEVER end.

Love

Dallas
 

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
Yes..

If "we' allow gay people to get married then next thing you know we will have to allow people to get married to their cockatoo.(first it would start with dogs..then cats next..eventually you could get married to an ant farm)..It woudl just NEVER end.

Love

Dallas

I recall much the same argument being used when Loving v Virginia was in the process.

Tho I will have to admit the Ant Farm is a rather original slippery slope fallacy.

We speak of allowing two consenting, tax paying minority adults to enjoy the same rights and privileges that everyone else does.

As there is no valid, secular reason to disallow two people to marry because they are of the same gender this is discrimination, pure and simple, discrimination in a Nation that supposedly prides herself on the concepts of Equality and Rights.

Quite a sad situation, really.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
I mean, it isn't like there is even one single legitimate legal reason to ban it.

two penises thrashing together under the cover of the moon light
actually affects the Dow Jones....

Its known as the "Rule of meat" principle

When there are too many meats in the chicken coup
bankers in the city of Nasdaq have heart failure

For the love of Hey Zeus and TExas
Prevent Gay marriage!
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Yes..

If "we' allow gay people to get married then next thing you know we will have to allow people to get married to their cockatoo.(first it would start with dogs..then cats next..eventually you could get married to an ant farm)..It woudl just NEVER end.

Love

Dallas

we all know that ants are people too
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Yes..

If "we' allow gay people to get married then next thing you know we will have to allow people to get married to their cockatoo.(first it would start with dogs..then cats next..eventually you could get married to an ant farm)..It woudl just NEVER end.

Love

Dallas

Can animals give informed consent and sign legal documents?
 
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