People who aren't worshipping Jesus, who are they worshipping?

[Desert Snake]

Who did not know the day of His return because only the Father, ergo Himself, knows it.

Correct?

Ciao

- viole

Incidentally, the deific titles mean the same thing. They mean God, the creator God. There are verses that use a 'distinction' of person, using both the father and 'Jesus'; this is poetic, because there are not two gods being referred to. So, different 'titles' of God are used.

To actually answer that question, it would be yes. However, that is from a narrative, or 'separation' perspective, between the ''man'' Jesus, and God, /Himself.

 

[Desert Snake]

There isnt multiple deities. In the Bible there is only One deity, God the Father "and" One Son, Jesus Christ.


To tell you honestly, yes. I find Judaism has a closer representation of God. Yet, I agree with Muslim in that I dont deny His divinity even though He isnt His Father. Seeing someone as God in any view sounds paganistic.
What is Talmudic Judaiam? Im familar with Messenic Judaiam. Im a little fuzzy with that though.
Traditional doesnt mean its right.. The christian faith came from the Church. The belief in one God is traditional. The belief in Christ is traditional. I cant find in the bible were it states Jesus Is God. Knowing by inspiration that He is is fine. The apostles never taught that either. They taught to get to the Father is through Jesus. Every christian belief is "through" Jesus, in "Jesus' (not Gods) name", in the "image of" (rather than Is). Jesus is important, of course, but to the point to call Him God! The Jews didnt even want Him to associate Himself as Gods Son...so as God? Purpostrous.

Im not saying not to look to Jesus. Im saying that Jesus never told anyone to replace the Father with Him. Actually, if Jesus were God, Jesus wouldnt be talking in the third person about Himself.

I guess one needs an objective view to see both sides. I did a thread that had both sides arguments and scripture for both. I understand why people believe Jesus as God. They would flip to think a human can save them. I understand why people say Jesus is not God, they would flip if anyone compared ANY Person to the Creator to the point of replacing Him.

In the former, I see that everything related to "godly things" miracles etc come from God only, so Jesus must be God because He can do miracles. The latter, just with Moses, God worked through Jesus. God performed the miracles. Why take the focus completely of God just because Jesus said to look to Him for His Fathers Words?
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I personally have empathy for what bothers others so that I see their view as Id like them to understand mine. I dont ask for agreement just respect and understanding.

Why are you even trying to justify a Christian perspective, then? Why not just state, you think such and such a religion is more accurate, true, or whatever? Is your argument, that Xians should practice a goofy, non-legit, form of Judaism? I'm not understanding your reasoning, here.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No.

I dont believe Jesus is God and never taught that. He taught the God of Abraham which is the same God that Jews and Muslims believe in.

I understand the Jewish perspective of God (not Christ) and like how they only worship the Creator and the traditions behind it. I side with muslims in that Jesus is divine which Judasim doesnt teach from what I gather.

Since Jesus never taught He is God, I see no reason to change Christianity. I just disagree with people who make Jesus someone He says He is not. Its not just my opinion. Its what I read from scriptures too.

Why are you even trying to justify a Christian perspective, then? Why not just state, you think such and such a religion is more accurate, true, or whatever? Is your argument, that Xians should practice a goofy, non-legit, form of Judaism? I'm not understanding your reasoning, here.

There are a lot of Christian beliefs that conflict with each other. If I were more knowledgable about the JW, Id say they have a better view and study of Jesus divinity. Christianity describes a persons relationship with the Father through or as a mirror of (not as) His Son. To make Jesus as God defeats the purpose of the son of man being blessed by God to do His Fathers will of saving millions that believe in Him. The whole nativity miracle doesnt make sense when Jesus was God to begin with.

 

[Desert Snake]

Since Jesus never taught He is God, I see no reason to change Christianity. I just disagree with people who make Jesus someone He says He is not. Its not just my opinion. Its what I read from scriptures too.

The thing is, you stated that you aren't a Christian, correct? But you think you are presenting the ''correct'' version of Xianity,.......do you notice the problem here?
Ie, if there was some ''correct'' form of Xianity, then why wouldn't you be Xian?
Doesn't make sense...

 

[Aupmanyav]

Since Jesus never taught He is God, I see no reason to change Christianity. I just disagree with people who make Jesus someone He says He is not. Its not just my opinion. Its what I read from scriptures too.

So perhaps the Islamic take on Jesus is more correct. Is that right? Human, born in marriage, not a son of God or God, not resurrected but taken away by YHWH to be sent again later, asks you to worship YHWH, the Abrahamic God.

 

[raph]

If I am not mistaken, then Jesus may have all the power, BUT he tells us all the time, that this power comes from the father. So people who are worshipping God without worshipping Jesus like the muslims, are probably worshipping Him who Jesus called his God, He who gave Jesus the power. If Jesus worshipped the father and the father is greater then Jesus, it is only natural to worship the father, it doesn't matter how "powerful" Jesus is.
I don't think that Jesus ever told people to worship Jesus. God is 1. Jesus is the image of the invisible God, it is okay to worship Jesus because he kinda is God, but we should not forget, that all praise actually is due to Allah.

 

[Desert Snake]

If I am not mistaken, then Jesus may have all the power, BUT he tells us all the time, that this power comes from the father. So people who are worshipping God without worshipping Jesus like the muslims, are probably worshipping Him who Jesus called his God, He who gave Jesus the power. If Jesus worshipped the father and the father is greater then Jesus, it is only natural to worship the father, it doesn't matter how "powerful" Jesus is.
I don't think that Jesus ever told people to worship Jesus. God is 1. Jesus is the image of the invisible God, it is okay to worship Jesus because he kinda is God, but we should not forget, that all praise actually is due to Allah.

Here is the problem with that theory. Or one problem, among many; Jesus is said to have all the power in heaven and on earth, so what would be the point of worshipping some ''other'' deity?

 

[raph]

Here is the problem with that theory. Or one problem, among many; Jesus is said to have all the power in heaven and on earth, so what would be the point of worshipping some ''other'' deity?

The point is, that all the power is given to him, by Him who actually has power himself. If Allah wanted, Jesus would be dead. But Jesus could never kill Allah.

 

[Desert Snake]

''bridging the gap idea.
/Which I don't adhere to.
Why would Jesus ''bridge the gap'', why would His purpose, be bridging the gap to the ''father'', ///I guess this is some other deity?, ,if He already has all the power of heaven and on earth? So, He has the power, yet people are banking on the fisherman Rabbi to intercede, 'carry' their prayers to the ''father''?
This has so many problems, there may not even be a way to rationally argue this belief.

 

[raph]

This has so many problems, there may not even be a way to rationally argue this belief.

Nothing said about God can be rational, because God stands above rationality, he created rationality.

The only way, that we can have contact to God is through "bridging the gap". God is so abstract, that we can never understand him. Even, when he spoke to Moses he was "bridging the gap", because he is above talking, he created talking. There is no way, for God contacting us, other then "bridging the gap" or what christians would say "humbling himself".

God created Jesus as an image of his invisible self, so that we can know God at least a bit. If God would not go down to the level of creation, we could never percive him, because even talking to us is "bridging the gap" or humbling himself to the level of "creation"(words). I am not saying, that God have made himself small, I am saying that he has created a "small" version that reflects his invisible self, but visibly.

The unknowable God wanted us to know him, he created a voice or a visible image of his invisible/unknowable self (quite paradox ), as a mediator.

That is not only Jesus, but for example also the burning bush of Moses.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My being a practicing Christian or not doesnt change the fact scripture says Jesus is not God. I do to need to be a mathematician or even love math to know two and two equals four. This is based on scripture not my opinion. It does not bother me if Jesus is God. It is just a fact from scripture that "it says" He is not. Christianity wont change either way. Jesus can still save the world God or not. I just find scripture suppoets the latter.

Anyone can talk about a topic and its support or argue against it without being interested in it. If anything, it gives an unbias point of view.

A two mathematicans can argue one and one is two for one person and the same equation but they say the answer is three on the other. They can debate all day (concept here) all day if they wanted. If someone came from the outside and studied math without opinionated bias, then he can side with either or give a different answer based on what he studied without the influence of belief.
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Yes, I am only a Christian by sacrament. I believe, just like anyone else who is alive in spirit, Jesus is alive in spirit. I believe he taught that we must carry own crosses and live by sacrificing our sins (dying to bad deeds) and resurrecting to new life (attempt to live a full life without sin). Its a simple concept, die to self to live forever (dont agree with the forever part). Theres just a lot of junk involved in describing it.

I can provide scriptures (which make sense, if you proove something from a "christian point of view" to use scripture. Though, that would take time unless you want to discuss it objectively.

The thing is, you stated that you aren't a Christian, correct? But you think you are presenting the ''correct'' version of Xianity,.......do you notice the problem here?
Ie, if there was some ''correct'' form of Xianity, then why wouldn't you be Xian?
Doesn't make sense...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

From an objective (not by my belief) view, that makes more sense. I cant remember how it was explained here by someone who practices Judaism. He had a better explanation than Muslim except I disgree that Christ is not divine. Divine not meaning God. Id have to find the post. Was a good conversation.

So perhaps the Islamic take on Jesus is more correct. Is that right? Human, born in marriage, not a son of God or God, not resurrected but taken away by YHWH to be sent again later, asks you to worship YHWH, the Abrahamic God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Here is the problem with that theory. Or one problem, among many; Jesus is said to have all the power in heaven and on earth, so what would be the point of worshipping some ''other'' deity?

You mean there is no need to worship YHWH. He has abdicated in favor of Jesus?

 

[InChrist]

According to the scriptures... Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil. 2:9-11

It appears that exalting, worshiping, and giving glory to Jesus (God the Son) simultaneously gives glory to God the Father.

 

[Maponos]

I worship my own people's gods.

 

[Desert Snake]

I worship my own people's gods.

That's great, but if you're combining romano and british mythology, then it's syncretism. britiain is traditionally Xian, btw.

 

[psychoslice]

Why worship any god ?.

 

[Desert Snake]

Why worship any god ?.

Every one ends up worshipping something.

 

[psychoslice]

Every one ends up worshipping something.

I certainly don't.

 

[Desert Snake]

I certainly don't.

You're quite unique, then.