"People who have faith . . . are not as smart as others"

[beenherebeforeagain]

Good points, beenherebeforeagai

thanks!

 

[Skwim]

I'm saying that the intelligence of these religious people disproves these "studies."

Yeah. but they don't. An exception here and there just doesn't do it. And it's just possible that were it not for their faith they would be even smarter than they are.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Yeah. but they don't. An exception here and there just doesn't do it. And it's just possible that were it not for their faith they would be even smarter than they are.

Your conclusion here is not even supported by the article you extracted the limited quotation from.

 

[Skwim]

Just to note, this is a very short excerpt from a much longer article that says an awful lot more about this subject than the OP chose to note.

Yup, I never quote more than what's necessary to deliver the gist of the article, or the gist of my point. I expect that people who are truly interested in the subject will click on the links I provide.


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[Skwim]

Einstein, Darwin, Newton, it's folly to believe science is saying religious people aren't as smart when religious scientists have made some of our most fundamental and significant discoveries.

So what?


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[Skwim]

Oh how interesting that this was in the article, yet no one has mentioned it....

"Atheists, the researchers found, are most closely aligned with psychopaths--not killers, but the vast majority of psychopaths classified as such due to their lack of empathy for others."

I actually read the article, And literally the only part that comes up with 'Religious people are less smart' is the parts you've quoted, But that's it. The actual study doesn't seem to have much to do with measuring ones intelligence against one's religious beliefs. Just an apparent statistical correlation, which in other words, is less than nothing. Jeez, and we're called the unintelligent ones?

So tired of people considering Theists as less. It's ridiculous, and quite frankly, embarrassing. A desperate grabbing at straws.

What does the fact that the researchers found that atheists are most closely aligned with psychopaths--not killers have to do with the finding that "People who have faith . . . are not as smart as others"?



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[lovesong]

I gotta say, it really grinds my gears when people go around hating on religion so much.

 

[Thana]

What does the fact that the researchers found that atheists are most closely aligned with psychopaths--not killers have to do with the finding that "People who have faith . . . are not as smart as others"?
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Well the same people who found that Theists are stupid also found that Atheists are psychopaths. And since you're clearly all about hard truths, I figured you'd want to know.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

"Conflict between science, religion lies in our brains

Clashes between the use of faith vs. scientific evidence to explain the world around us dates back centuries and is perhaps most visible today in the arguments between evolution and creationism.

To believe in a supernatural god or universal spirit, people appear to suppress the brain network used for analytical thinking and engage the empathetic network, the scientists say. When thinking analytically about the physical world, people appear to do the opposite.

"When there's a question of faith, from the analytic point of view, it may seem absurd," said Tony Jack, who led the research. "But, from what we understand about the brain, the leap of faith to belief in the supernatural amounts to pushing aside the critical/analytical way of thinking to help us achieve greater social and emotional insight."

"A stream of research in cognitive psychology has shown and claims that people who have faith (i.e., are religious or spiritual) are not as smart as others. They actually might claim they are less intelligent.," said Richard Boyatzis, distinguished university professor and professor of organizational behavior at Case Western Reserve, and a member of Jack's team.

"Our studies confirmed that statistical relationship, but at the same time showed that people with faith are more prosocial and empathic," he said."
source
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I find this very surprising. I've always attributed the refusal of the faithful to consider the significance of science in explaining the world, to their need to hold fast to the security of religion. Not that it's an actual inability.



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Your surprise seems to suggest you were explaining through your beliefs, not through use of facts.

Note that when you actually read the rest of the article, it says nothing more about intelligence--it talks about the use of two different brain systems, which are useful in different situations. Atheists according to this report, are not nearly as good at empathy and prosocial behavior--getting along with others humans--while they are better at solving certain kinds of problems in the material world. That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

I strongly suspect that if one looks to the actual research article, which I haven't had time to do yet, there will be little or no discussion of intelligence, and much more discussion of the relative useful of the two kinds of skills in different settings.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So what?


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The "so what" is that those religious people were extremely intelligent. They were all religious, and we all know there names, and although they didn't write the text books, the text books are written around their ideas. And I could go on. We have MRIs because of a guy who is a Young Earth Creationist invented it. Galileo, Copernicus, Mendel, it's nothing more than a pile of horse **** to claim religious people aren't as intelligent. Even science itself came from people who were religious and believed that learning about the physical world, through our much celebrated process of science, was to glorify god. The "so what" is that those religious people made enormous and fundamental contributions to science, and many them, such as Einstein, were a helluva lot more intelligent than any of us on this forum are.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hell, even Stephen Hawking didn't get any more intelligent when he stopped believing, and we can clearly see his transition from believing, to being more of an apathetic agnostic, to being an atheist.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

The "so what" is that those religious people were extremely intelligent. They were all religious, and we all know there names, and although they didn't write the text books, the text books are written around their ideas. And I could go on. We have MRIs (something I have greatly benefited from) because of a guy who is a Creationist invented it. Galileo, Copernicus, Mendel, it's nothing more than a pile of horse **** to claim religious people aren't as intelligent. Even science itself came from people who were religious and believed that learning about the physical world, through our much celebrated process of science, was to glorify god. The "so what" is that those religious people made enormous and fundamental contributions to science, and many them, such as Einstein, were a helluva lot more intelligent than any of us on this forum are.

from what I have heard about Einstein, I would trust him implicitly with physics, but maybe not so much with bookkeeping and accounting. I would love to hear him play violin, but I would not want him to try to fix my car.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Benjamin Franklin was a deist, and he wasn't exactly known for being a dim-witted idiot.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Benjamin Franklin was a deist, and he exactly known for being a dim-witted idiot.

Yes, but he was socially brilliant, able to hobnob with both the lowest and highest in society.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

from what I have heard about Einstein, I would trust him implicitly with physics, but maybe not so much with bookkeeping and accounting. I would love to hear him play violin, but I would not want him to try to fix my car.

That just goes to show that intelligence is not this nice-neat-little-box we try to think of it as. I wouldn't have discovered Relativity, but I can fix just about anything on a car.
Asperger's syndrome also demonstrates that. We Aspies are known for being able to grasp science and mathematics far more easily than our neurotypical peers, but the key-and-defining trait of the syndrome is a poor understanding of social and emotional intelligence. Some of us are very gifted in the arts, but we may struggle with finding jobs and dates.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, but he was socially brilliant, able to hobnob with both the lowest and highest in society.

He was just the next name I thought of who was both a theist and very brilliant. He was truly a very gifted man, very intelligent, very talented, very insightful, very inventive, and he believed in a god.

 

[Skwim]

Well the same people who found that Theists are stupid also found that Atheists are psychopaths. And since you're clearly all about hard truths, I figured you'd want to know.

Thanks, but I had already read it.

 

[atanu]

"Conflict between science, religion lies in our brains

Clashes between the use of faith vs. scientific evidence to explain the world around us dates back centuries and is perhaps most visible today in the arguments between evolution and creationism.

To believe in a supernatural god or universal spirit, people appear to suppress the brain network used for analytical thinking and engage the empathetic network, the scientists say. When thinking analytically about the physical world, people appear to do the opposite.

"When there's a question of faith, from the analytic point of view, it may seem absurd," said Tony Jack, who led the research. "But, from what we understand about the brain, the leap of faith to belief in the supernatural amounts to pushing aside the critical/analytical way of thinking to help us achieve greater social and emotional insight."

"A stream of research in cognitive psychology has shown and claims that people who have faith (i.e., are religious or spiritual) are not as smart as others. They actually might claim they are less intelligent.," said Richard Boyatzis, distinguished university professor and professor of organizational behavior at Case Western Reserve, and a member of Jack's team.

"Our studies confirmed that statistical relationship, but at the same time showed that people with faith are more prosocial and empathic," he said."
source
​

I find this very surprising. I've always attributed the refusal of the faithful to consider the significance of science in explaining the world, to their need to hold fast to the security of religion. Not that it's an actual inability.

.

If you read 'Zen and the art of motorcycle repair', this may be clearer to you.

 

[psychoslice]

Even the scriptures encourage us to be ignorant, of course that was put in there to encourage those who were ignorant to except what the scriptures said, they were known as the rabble.

 

[Skwim]

Your surprise seems to suggest you were explaining through your beliefs, not through use of facts.

In way you're correct. Lacking any substantive evidence, I relied on the impressions I've picked up from Christians.


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