Perception of Violent Music

[wednesday]

Manson is a victim, they had to blame someone and he was in the wrong palce at the wrong time. In Europe musicians promoting violence are condemned. My stance to their critics is that if you dont like it, dont listen to it. I listen to Death Metal, Black Metal, Gothic Metal and so on and it doesnt make me want to burn down a church like Varg Vikernes of Burzum (famous satanist).
I do have problems with stereotypes present in other forms of music as i believe they send out the wrong message and promote violence through other means. I dont want to generalise but rap is a huge offender, and gets more air time in one day than violent heavy metal does in a decade.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Spawned by the comments in the "Question for fundamentalist Christian parents" thread, after it went on a tangent about Marilyn Manson's music:

What I find hilarious is that songs by Marilyn Manson are horrible, terrible, Satanic, encourage violence, etc... but take a listen to Carrie Underwood's "Before He Cheats". Although it encourages violence against objects, not people, it is still a violent song that glorifies revenge.

Why is "Before He Cheats" widely popular and people hardly bat a lash at it, while anything by Manson is labeled Satanic and a terrible influence?

The lyrics from Before He Cheats, for anyone that hasn't heard the song, can be found here.

Excellent question.

IMO, as long as it does not advocate power of a dominant group over a subordinate group, violence in the media can be justifiable. First of all, nobody is really getting hurt or killed. To quote a post from a few months ago, from every vantage point except the one of the camera, it all looks utterly, completely fake. Second, sometimes watching extremely violent movies or listening to ultraviolent lyrics can be intensely cathartic, because in that brief moment, you finally get to let your primal urges go and just enjoy the bloodbath for a bit of time. If you walked out of the theatre after watching Kill Bill: Vol. 1 or Sin City feeling that your bloodthirst was finally satisfied, if but for a time, and not having a shred of guilt about it, you understand what I mean.

Side note: if you've ever seen Bowling for Columbine, Marilyn Manson comes across as awfully kind and understanding--a stark contrast to the image that social conservatives tended to brand him with.

It's okay for them to think Carrie Underwood it okay, because she is a wholesome, Christian girl who believes in God.When you believe in God, anything is okay. :areyoucra

I've honestly heard this out of Christian's mouths, if you believe in God, I can do anything I want and I am still saved. :sarcastic

Don't even get me started on this. :sarcastic

 

[wednesday]

Excellent question.
Side note: if you've ever seen Bowling for Columbine, Marilyn Manson comes across as awfully kind and understanding--a stark contrast to the image that social conservatives tended to brand him with.

Bowling for Columbine was as staged as any other movie, placing people in the situation and trying to paint a specific version of them.

Question: Satanic music is often called brainwashing music (hence why its banned in Malaysia) but Christian music is the other extreme. Why isnt it also banned, kind of doesnt seem fair to me?

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Bowling for Columbine was as staged as any other movie, placing people in the situation and trying to paint a specific version of them.

Question: Satanic music is often called brainwashing music (hence why its banned in Malaysia) but Christian music is the other extreme. Why isnt it also banned, kind of doesnt seem fair to me?

Oooh, another great question.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Satanic music is often called brainwashing music (hence why its banned in Malaysia) but Christian music is the other extreme. Why isnt it also banned, kind of doesnt seem fair to me?

Maybe it is the stigma/label of Satanism. Satanism is automatically labeled bad, while Christian positive.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Maybe it is the stigma/label of Satanism. Satanism is automatically labeled bad, while Christian positive.

That may be, Luke. Which would be crazy, because we all know how nice and gentle Christianity has been to all those "other" people throughout the years, and even to some of its own followers in "other" denominations. :sarcastic

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That may be, Luke. Which would be crazy, because we all know how nice and gentle Christianity has been to all those "other" people throughout the years, and even to some of its own followers in "other" denominations.

Very true. Unfortunately though, when most think of Satanism, they think of mindless rebellion, blood sacrifices, violence, and everything else that is not a part of Satanism. Just as with Christianity, most think of charity, donations, good will, helping one another, and many other things that seem to be a relatively new part of Christianity.

 

[zombieharlot]

Just as with Christianity, most think of charity, donations, good will, helping one another, and many other things that seem to be a relatively new part of Christianity.

That seems to be a very positive view of Christianity as compared to how I always thought the general non-Christian public viewed it.

 

[methylatedghosts]

if you've ever seen Bowling for Columbine, Marilyn Manson comes across as awfully kind and understanding--a stark contrast to the image that social conservatives tended to brand him with.

And if you read his autobiography - The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell, he comes accross as very smart.

And you also see why he was the victim (actually, quite a bit the victim of his christian school towards some things he said/did)


According to the NZ readers digest, in a survey taken from the highest 5% of smart people, many listened to metal - so these are your top doctors, lawyers, scientists etc etc listening to "violent" music.

 

[methylatedghosts]

I also wrote a song called "Get Your Gunn." The title is spelled with two n's because the song was a reaction to the murder of Dr. David Gunn, who was killed in Florida by pro-life activists while I was living there. That was the ultimate hypocrisy I witnessed growing up: that these people killed someone in the name of being "pro-life."

ROFLMAO


I think he's really really smart and does very well to pick out the hypocrisy in our actions as a whole - as communities.

 

[lilithu]

Spawned by the comments in the "Question for fundamentalist Christian parents" thread, after it went on a tangent about Marilyn Manson's music:

What I find hilarious is that songs by Marilyn Manson are horrible, terrible, Satanic, encourage violence, etc... but take a listen to Carrie Underwood's "Before He Cheats". Although it encourages violence against objects, not people, it is still a violent song that glorifies revenge.

Why is "Before He Cheats" widely popular and people hardly bat a lash at it, while anything by Manson is labeled Satanic and a terrible influence?

The lyrics from Before He Cheats, for anyone that hasn't heard the song, can be found here.

Blech. I'd never heard of this song and do not want to. The lyrics are insipid. I don't even think of them as "promoting violence" so much as promoting the stereotype that "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Vapid. This is popular?

I assume that people don't mind this song because the anger/violence expressed isn't scary. They can understand why the jilted girl is angry and they may even condone the violence against the cheating lover. Manson, otoh, talks about an anger that some people do not understand. And he dresses against accepted gender norms for this culture.

I'm not a huge Marylin Manson fan but definitely prefer him over Carrie Underwhelm.

Angry music can be "positive." When I am in a foul mood and put on NIN, Korn, or Disturbed or Eminem, DMX, or Nas, I almost always feel better afterwards. Less angry. It's cathartic.

 

[PureX]

Religious conservatives tend to believe that people are far more easily brainwashed than they actually are. I have my suspicions as to why they believe this, but we'll leave that for another thread. But because they tend to believe this, they have a tendency to blame ideas for behavior more than is realistic, I think. It's why they want prayers in schools so badly: because they actually believe that making kids say prayers in school will help brainwash them into believing what they're being made to say. And it's also why they fight so hard against any alternative messages or ideas. They don't seem to understand that most people can listen to an "evil" message and not become evil themselves. Most people do not automatically assimilate content like that.

On the other hand, they do have a point. Angry people listen to angry messages, because that's what "makes sense" to them. They identify with angry and violent messages because they are angry people, who like the idea of satisfying anger with violence. And it is true that the repetition of these messages tend to dull people's culturalized taboos against such inclinations, which can increase their likelihood of acting out violently.

But some Christians are angry people, too. And so they like angry and violent messages just as much as any angry non-Christian person does. And they can find plenty of them in their bibles, or in their preferred music, reading, etc. Religion is full of anger, vengeance, and violent messages.

But it's always easier to see the flaw in someone else's behavior than it is to see it in our own, and Christians are certainly no exception in this. In fact, I think we often focus on the flaws of others so that we can more easily ignore our own.

But this all works both ways. Just as Christians should look closer to home when they want to go looking for negative cultural messages, so the same is true of those who like angry and violent non-Christian music, and books, and etc. Perhaps it's time to ask ourselves why we favor this sort of negative and destructive imagery, and ask if it's really all that healthy for us to be surrounded by it.

 

[lilithu]

But some Christians are angry people, too. And so they like angry and violent messages just as much as any angry non-Christian person does. And they can find plenty of them in their bibles, or in their preferred music, reading, etc. Religion is full of anger, vengeance, and violent messages.

Onward Christian Soldiers marching as to war,
with the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
forward into battle see his banners go!

:bonk:

Oh right, but I forgot, war is an acceptable form of violence. :sarcastic

 

[Reverend Rick]

I guess it is time for me to weigh in on this issue. I believe that ADULTS should be able to listen to what ever they want to. I believe that MOST CHILDREN have enough sense not to be influenced by music, but some children will slip between the cracks.

Is it the song writers fault if someone emulates their music? NO!

It is the parents responsibility to know what their children are listening to and decide if the music poses a danger to the child's development.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Blech. I'd never heard of this song and do not want to. The lyrics are insipid. I don't even think of them as "promoting violence" so much as promoting the stereotype that "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Vapid. This is popular?

I assume that people don't mind this song because the anger/violence expressed isn't scary. They can understand why the jilted girl is angry and they may even condone the violence against the cheating lover. Manson, otoh, talks about an anger that some people do not understand. And he dresses against accepted gender norms for this culture.

I'm not a huge Marylin Manson fan but definitely prefer him over Carrie Underwhelm.

Angry music can be "positive." When I am in a foul mood and put on NIN, Korn, or Disturbed or Eminem, DMX, or Nas, I almost always feel better afterwards. Less angry. It's cathartic.

I hear you, and I agree. There's this song by Godsmack where the guy basically tells someone, you're a sick, evil, twisted person. And it felt better to not just listen to it, but let it really, really sink in.

Religious conservatives tend to believe that people are far more easily brainwashed than they actually are. I have my suspicions as to why they believe this, but we'll leave that for another thread. But because they tend to believe this, they have a tendency to blame ideas for behavior more than is realistic, I think. It's why they want prayers in schools so badly: because they actually believe that making kids say prayers in school will help brainwash them into believing what they're being made to say. And it's also why they fight so hard against any alternative messages or ideas. They don't seem to understand that most people can listen to an "evil" message and not become evil themselves. Most people do not automatically assimilate content like that.

On the other hand, they do have a point. Angry people listen to angry messages, because that's what "makes sense" to them. They identify with angry and violent messages because they are angry people, who like the idea of satisfying anger with violence. And it is true that the repetition of these messages tend to dull people's culturalized taboos against such inclinations, which can increase their likelihood of acting out violently.

But some Christians are angry people, too. And so they like angry and violent messages just as much as any angry non-Christian person does. And they can find plenty of them in their bibles, or in their preferred music, reading, etc. Religion is full of anger, vengeance, and violent messages.

But it's always easier to see the flaw in someone else's behavior than it is to see it in our own, and Christians are certainly no exception in this. In fact, I think we often focus on the flaws of others so that we can more easily ignore our own.

But this all works both ways. Just as Christians should look closer to home when they want to go looking for negative cultural messages, so the same is true of those who like angry and violent non-Christian music, and books, and etc. Perhaps it's time to ask ourselves why we favor this sort of negative and destructive imagery, and ask if it's really all that healthy for us to be surrounded by it.

Beautiful. Have some frubals.