What makes it more dangerous than the US and China, in your view?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Perceptions of Russia Before and After the Start of the War
- Thread starter Debater Slayer
- Start date
What makes it more dangerous than the US and China, in your view?
Do you see the US and China, or either of them, as more restrained or ethical in their military policies than Russia?
Are you sure of that claim?As people are required to speak Danish in your country.
"Can I get by in Denmark without speaking Danish?"
I'm frequently asked if it's possible to live in Denmark without speaking Danish. The answer is yes, although you'll have less fun at parties.
www.howtoliveindenmark.com
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
No, they are required to speak Russian.
As people are required to speak Danish in your country.
Are they allowed to learn the language of their own nationality in school. If yes, is that paid for by in effect some part of the state?
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
As I understand it, Russia understand itself as a superpower and want to restore in effect the Russian Empire. That makes them dangerous and at least on par with the US and China.
I am trying to be neutral here.
Absolutely, yes.
The language of the republic of the Russian Federation is taught in schools.
Example: Kabardino-Balcaria.
I can see where the perspective is coming from, for sure, and I agree that Russia, in terms of its foreign policy, has been aggressive toward numerous countries for decades. I was asking more about the opinion that it is more dangerous than the US and China.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
4According to wiki: List of ethnic groups in Russia - Wikipedia.
- there are more than 190 nationalities in Russia and there are not 190 republics in Russia. What about the rest?
How, if at all, has your perception of Russia changed since its 2022 invasion of Ukraine?
Yes, I most definitely do.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
"Restrained" is an interesting aspect....if I may jump
into someone else's conversation.
China strikes me as different, by using "restrained aggression", eg,
expansion by a government policy of creating economic dependence
eg, in Africa, long term takeover of the S China Sea, patience in
conquering Taiwan.
Their form of government has greater continuity of agendas
than does Russia's or especially USA's (which is chaotic,
being up-ended every 4 or 8 years).
It has gone from bad to worse!
Are you referring to the "salami-slicing" strategy?
Chinese salami slicing strategy - Wikipedia
Salami slicing tactics - Wikipedia
Apparently so.
I just never knew of the term.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I've always been very suspicious of Russia with their sham democracy, oligarchs, persecution of any and all political opposition, etc.
I've always also thought it was a very bad idea for Europe in general to become more and more dependent on them for supply of energy (gas & oil). I always figured such dependence would blow up in our face one day - and it did eventually although I was also pleasantly surprised about how fast Europe was able to retool energy supply from other sources.
I never trusted Putin and his cohorts.
So for me, I guess it didn't really change as it was negative before and negative after.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
How somebody can say that with a straight face, is beyond me.
Especially if that someone even belongs to the LGBT community (if memory serves me right).
My early impressions of Russia were forged early in life, in an atmosphere of rigid anti-communist Cold War attitudes, but also openly challenged by defiant anti-war attitudes, coupled with support of civil rights, gender equality, and a reaction against anti-communism one might call "anti-anti-communism." I wouldn't say it was communist, in and of itself, but there were those who were against the intransigent, intolerant attitudes exhibited by anti-communists, who were seen as going way too far and operating without any scruples or sense of restraint. McCarthyism was just one aspect, although by the time I became aware, McCarthy had already been thoroughly discredited. Popular culture created many examples and caricatures, such as Archie Bunker or Frank Burns from M*A*S*H, who were portrayed as bigoted, chauvinistic, intolerant, and militaristic. I also encountered quite a number in real life, in my own family, as well as others who were seemingly influenced by the John Birch way of thinking.
In other words, my first impressions of Russia were formed by other Americans telling me about Russia, America, our history, the outside world and our role in it. This triggered a sense of curiosity within me that compelled me to start learning more about Russia. When I had to choose a foreign language to study, I chose Russian. My first Russian teacher was of Russian descent, but his parents immigrated to the U.S. around the time of the Russian Revolution, so he was virulently anti-Soviet and anti-communist. He was pretty well-versed in history and current events, and we had many interesting discussions. His views of the Soviets were similar to those of typical American conservatives, yet he also would get irritated and sensitive to any jokes, mocking, or pejorative remarks about Russians in general. He also didn't like hearing any Polish jokes either, as those were pretty widespread back in those days.
The funny thing was, back in the 70s, it appeared the anti-anti-communist viewpoint was more accepted, as we had Detente with the Soviet Union and warming relations with Red China. The Cold War was in a state of thaw. The US attitude had softened somewhat since the McCarthy days, and the Soviets were also long past their brutal Stalinist era. Things were changing, and people were questioning whether taking such a hardlined stance against the Soviets was the right approach. But then, Reagan came in like gangbusters - like something out of a 1950s b-movie. Reagan was like some hybrid clone - a merging of Al Capone, General Jack D. Ripper, and Joe McCarthy all rolled into one. Reagan thought Russia was an "evil empire," and there were fears of Reagan possibly being some kind of nuclear warmonger. He was basically a far less intelligent version of Nixon.
Another key event which was kind of an eye-opener for me was the 1979 overthrow of the Shah in Iran and the subsequent takeover of the US embassy and the ensuing hostage crisis. It was all over the news, and much of the country was riveted. Prior to that, I had never heard that the US installed the Shah and helped set up and train his secret police force. I wondered, "Why would we do that? We're Americans. We're supposed to be for truth, justice, freedom, liberty..."
When I learned more and more about some of the lesser-known activities and positions held by our government, I began to wonder about how much truthful information they were telling us about the world, which included common perceptions of Russia and the Soviet Union. I also started to look more and more at the other side, and they, too, had their own point of view about us. I remember hearing Alexandr Solzhenitsyn making a speech to Americans and basically saying "Americans have no souls." I kind of understood where he was coming from (I used to be more religious back in those days).
I visited there during the 1980s, during the Gorbachev era. This also included visits to the Piskaryovskoye Memorial Cemetery in Leningrad and the Mamayev Kurgan in Volgograd. I talked to people who lived through the horrors of WW2, something that most Americans had no conception of or understanding. There were WW2 monuments all over the place, and I would also see countless elderly gentlemen wearing all their war medals on their jackets as they walked down the street. They served their country heroically in the Red Army to fend off the fascist invasion. I respected that. They're really good chess players, too. And they're much better at math than I ever was.
As with anything, you get the good and the bad. Go to any place in the world, and you'll find your share of nice people, as well as the usual quota of jerks and nimrods.
One thing that also struck me, as an American, was that both my country and their country were two major superpowers at the head of two major alliances. The Cold War was like a giant chess game, involving the movement and deployment of strategic forces, monitoring troops movements, surveillance of communications, codebreaking, spying - which included internal security directed at their own people. As adversaries, we shared much in common with each other.
Above all else, I realized that I had no right to pass judgement on them in any way, but by the same token, I didn't see where they had any right to pass judgement on America. Even if they were right about some things. Many of the things Americans and others say about Russia are true, as they also have their historical dark side just as any country might have.
After the fall of the Berlin Wall, I thought we would be entering a new era, which it was. I saw Gorbachev as a reformer who took a more conciliatory view towards the West, and all in all, there was a strong sense of just wanting the whole madness to end. WW2 was long past. Stalin and Khrushchev and other hardliners were gone. There was no longer any reason to have an "Iron Curtain" anymore. Within the Soviet Union, things were loosening up and the society was starting to become more open and free. It was a hopeful time.
What took me by surprise was in 1991, a group of hardline Soviets staged a coup, arrested and confined Gorbachev, then seized power. They immediately sent forces to the Baltics, who had just exercised their right to secede under the Soviet Constitution. Back in Moscow, throngs of protesters marched and rallied around Boris Yeltsin, while Gorbachev's status was still unknown. They weren't shouting for Gorbachev; they didn't like him anymore. So, even after the coup abruptly ended and the hardliners thrown out, Gorbachev was also out, and Yeltsin was in.
My impression of Russia during those years was probably one more of heartfelt sympathy. I really felt bad for them. They were going through incredibly rough times during the 1990s. The USSR had practically zero street crime and in general, one was quite safe walking down the street late at night. But in the 90s, crime skyrocketed. There was a sense of disorder in the country. Sex trafficking was another major problem, not just in Russia, but in other Eastern European countries. It was the kind of atmosphere where vultures tend to congregate. Even the government was in disarray. I recall an incident where a local power cooperative in Russia cut off the power for the local naval base - because they hadn't paid their bill. The naval base sent over a team of Spetsnaz commandos over to the power plant and forced them at gunpoint to restore the power. Another image that struck me was that of an aged pensioner, foraging for food in a city dump.
It seemed at that time as if the whole country had just hit rock bottom. Meanwhile, the mood in the U.S. seemed that of gloating, kind of like high schoolers after their football team won the big game against their arch rival. That may be symbolic of a difference between us. The Russians might see it as a game of chess, while Americans think everything is a football game.
On the world stage, the U.S. had more of a free hand to impose its will upon the world. The Soviets weren't around to muck things up in that regard. The Russians weren't really in much of a position to do anything, although after Yeltsin was out, it seemed clear that a power struggle was afoot, and Putin ultimately wound up in the top spot. I didn't really know what to make of him at first, but I could see that things were beginning to become more orderly. It was no longer the chaos and lawlessness of the 1990s and early 2000s. I'm also somewhat astounded by the resurgence of Russian Orthodoxy in recent times, although considering their history and circumstances, I guess it's not too surprising. There's always been a certain philosophical and devoutly religious facet of their history and culture.
As for this current crisis, including the invasion of Crimea in 2014, to be honest, I'm not sure what went wrong. As far as what is reported in the media, it looks like Putin has just gone mad or something. But it seems there are quite a few pieces missing to this puzzle. I learned during the Cold War that neither government, neither side really told the real truth, as it was often hidden in a lot of rhetoric and propaganda. The truth doesn't really come that easily. But all in all, it seems it was an incredible blunder on Putin's part. Is he really that stupid, or was there something else going on behind the scenes that caused him to do this?
It doesn't really change my overall perceptions of Russia. I don't necessarily associate the people with the government. I do feel disheartened by what appears to be a new cold war we're in. Russia is again being targeted as an "enemy nation," and the mentality in the West is becoming more and more along the lines of "those who are not with us are against us."