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PETA: are you for them or against them?
- Thread starter ninerbuff
- Start date
What do you mean by "up to the level of a human?" What quality do humans have that puts them in a separate moral category from animals?
Are you seriously suggesting that the massive buildup of human generated greenhouse gasses is not affecting Earth's climate? What other explanation for the sudden energy increase are you proposing?
I think you're confusing weather with climate.
Where would PETA be sending the funds, fernsix? ALF isn't an organization. It's a movement. It has no address.
Vendetta
"Oscar the grouch"
Lol sounds good....isn't there a mediterranian bread called PETA? LoL
waitasec
Veteran Member
that's right.... it's bread
did you ever watch bruno, when he got an israeli and a palestinian together and asked what the big deal was about over hummus?
Vendetta
"Oscar the grouch"
that's right.... it's bread
did you ever watch bruno, when he got an israeli and a palestinian together and asked what the big deal was about over hummus?
Lol yeah
ninerbuff
godless wonder
Humans being the dominant species of Earth. That is unless of course some bacteria kills us off.
Look at ice core samples. CO2 trapped in ice core samples show the increase and decrease of CO2 dating back 400,000 years. As the CO2 rose, so did the temperature.......and there wasn't any industry involved.
New Antarctic Ice Core Data
Climate is observed over long periods of time. Yes, it's getting warmer, but it has been "cool" for the last 10,000 years. We were due for a warm up.
ninerbuff
godless wonder
Well funding Rodney Coranado's defense for the destruction of property, by the tune of 70,000 dollars would be a good example. Coranado is an ALF member and described by Ingrid Newkirk as a fine young man.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Yes, but originally you said this.
And this is what the USGS says about this
The estimates are that human activities generate 100-300 times the amount of carbon dioxide then is emitted by volcanoes.
Volcanic Gases and Their Effects
Twenty Nobel prizewinners said this
"Global climate change represents a threat of similar proportions [to that ] threat posed to civilization by the advent of thermonuclear weapons, and should be addressed in a similar manner. All scientists should be urged to contribute to raising levels of public knowledge on these threats to civilization and engage in a massive education effort.
"We know what needs to be done. We cannot wait until it is too late. We cannot wait until what we value most is lost."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/may/29/prince-charles-nobel-laureates
I have a question for you.
If you had a gas leak in your home were your wife and kids lived. And you were told (by the greatest experts in the world) there was a ten percent chance that it would blow up and kill your family. Would you just sit back eat your meat industry 12 oz steak with eggs and tomatoes and gamble if it will kill your family? No most people would fix the problem even if it was a Financial hardship.
Even the skeptical Bush administration said there is a 60% chance that climate Change is do to human activities. Should we not change ?
Part of this change must be stop supporting the factory farming of animals.
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A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
I hate PETA. HATE.
I'm a vegetarian but there's nothing I like better than wiping the blood off my plate with a biscuit after eating a medium rare ribeye. YUM.
I'm a vegetarian but there's nothing I like better than wiping the blood off my plate with a biscuit after eating a medium rare ribeye. YUM.
ninerbuff
godless wonder
Show me the evidence that this is true. No where in the link did it say what you stated about estimates.
That's great. But again where does any scientist say that the current trend of warming is the DIRECT effect from human CO2? There isn't any. Human CO2 may accelerate it, but no scientist will say that this is the absolute cause of the current warming trend.
First I would get the gas leak fixed which has nothing to do with eating meat (CO2 doesn't blow up, but natural gas will). Second you'd have to show me absolute proof that eating meat will kill my family, which if it were true, then thousands of families should be dead by now.
And did you not look at the graph of the core samples? How do you explain the CO2 rise and temperature rise of other eras that didn't have industry? Please elaborate on that.
You love and respect animals. I get it. But even with the knowledge of the best scientists in the world, the is NO WAY any of them can say that the current warming trend isn't part of cycle that has been going on for thousands and thousands of years.
If there weren't any cycles, then yes the evidence would be clear. But due to previous rise and falls of temperature without industry being present, the evidence isn't absolute.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I don't want to argue anymore with a fellow Giants fan. But let me explain myself.
True but the analogy was about climate change. I must not of been very clear.
The analogy was about climate change causing major disruptions. Like war over water sources and movement of people due to raising sea levels. This is already happened and will happened more. We need to change the way we live so we will not just be making the problems even worse.
Yes, I did look at them. Higher CO2 levels are being to be caused by humans today. In the past their have been different reasons for the Higher C02 levels. In the past there were many natural causes for this change in co2 today the change is being caused by humans.
IPCC scientists believe that there is a greater than
90 percent chance that most of the warming we have
experienced since the 1950s is due to the increase in
greenhouse gas emissions from human activities.
cycling of heat from the ocean to the atmosphere.
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/downloads/Climate_Basics.pdf
Do you believe that we should ignore all of the worlds top scientists when they say that Human civilization is at stake ? Like I have shown in past posts.
You would fix your gas leak because you love your family. Even though it would cause great economic hard ship. For only a 10% chance. All of the worlds top minds are now telling us there is a 90% chance of great problems for all of humanity. If you love your human family you would also support political and personal changes that would not just make things worse.
This is not about Animals. I have never asked anybody to stop eating meat.
I don't eat meat because of religious and moral reasons. I dont support Peta because I don't think I have the right to tell others not to eat meat.
I am just asking people to eat self-sustaining sources of meat. Hunt, raise rabbits in your back yard, or buy meat from good sources that don't destroy the environment. (I.E. Grass feed Beef)
Animals die it is only natural. Still we do not need to be so cruel to any living thing. The meat industry treats animals like they are not living beings and they don't feel pain. On top of that they are destroying the environment.
If all most of us can do is go from eating meat from 14 meals a week to 10 thats a good place to start.
I believe it is extremely naive to believe Humans are going to stop eating meat. This is why my beliefs differ from Peta.
True but the analogy was about climate change. I must not of been very clear.
The analogy was about climate change causing major disruptions. Like war over water sources and movement of people due to raising sea levels. This is already happened and will happened more. We need to change the way we live so we will not just be making the problems even worse.
Yes, I did look at them. Higher CO2 levels are being to be caused by humans today. In the past their have been different reasons for the Higher C02 levels. In the past there were many natural causes for this change in co2 today the change is being caused by humans.
IPCC scientists believe that there is a greater than
90 percent chance that most of the warming we have
experienced since the 1950s is due to the increase in
greenhouse gas emissions from human activities.
cycling of heat from the ocean to the atmosphere.
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/downloads/Climate_Basics.pdf
Do you believe that we should ignore all of the worlds top scientists when they say that Human civilization is at stake ? Like I have shown in past posts.
You would fix your gas leak because you love your family. Even though it would cause great economic hard ship. For only a 10% chance. All of the worlds top minds are now telling us there is a 90% chance of great problems for all of humanity. If you love your human family you would also support political and personal changes that would not just make things worse.
This is not about Animals. I have never asked anybody to stop eating meat.
I don't eat meat because of religious and moral reasons. I dont support Peta because I don't think I have the right to tell others not to eat meat.
I am just asking people to eat self-sustaining sources of meat. Hunt, raise rabbits in your back yard, or buy meat from good sources that don't destroy the environment. (I.E. Grass feed Beef)
Animals die it is only natural. Still we do not need to be so cruel to any living thing. The meat industry treats animals like they are not living beings and they don't feel pain. On top of that they are destroying the environment.
If all most of us can do is go from eating meat from 14 meals a week to 10 thats a good place to start.
I believe it is extremely naive to believe Humans are going to stop eating meat. This is why my beliefs differ from Peta.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Maybe i gave the wrong USGS site sorry I can't find it now. Here is one more
In other words, human CO2 emissions are over 100 times greater than volcanic emissions.
Two attempts to blame global warming on volcanoes
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
A few of the unethical and immoral things the meat industry have done to Animals:
-Genetically altering Turkeys so they have so much breast meat they can't walk in a straight line.
-Altering the genes of pigs so much that they are incapable of mating without artificial insemination.
-26 pounds of sea life is killed for every 1 pond of shrimp taken from the sea.
-The EPA said that 35,000 miles of river in America have been polluted by animal excrement.
-Chickens are de-beaked so they can live in an area the size of a standard piece of paper without hurting other birds.
-180 million chickens are improperly slaughter each year (-National Chicken Council)
Many are boiled alive in scalding tanks.
-Slaughter house workers have he highest injury rate of any job in America 27%
-No laws in America about how male egg laying chickens are deposed of. Some are just put in plastic bags others are put in grinders.
-Most States let the corperations define what is cruelty. So anything goes when it comes to killing Animals as long as it is a practice adopted by the industry.
-Genetically altering Turkeys so they have so much breast meat they can't walk in a straight line.
-Altering the genes of pigs so much that they are incapable of mating without artificial insemination.
-26 pounds of sea life is killed for every 1 pond of shrimp taken from the sea.
-The EPA said that 35,000 miles of river in America have been polluted by animal excrement.
-Chickens are de-beaked so they can live in an area the size of a standard piece of paper without hurting other birds.
-180 million chickens are improperly slaughter each year (-National Chicken Council)
Many are boiled alive in scalding tanks.
-Slaughter house workers have he highest injury rate of any job in America 27%
-No laws in America about how male egg laying chickens are deposed of. Some are just put in plastic bags others are put in grinders.
-Most States let the corperations define what is cruelty. So anything goes when it comes to killing Animals as long as it is a practice adopted by the industry.
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ninerbuff
godless wonder
We're not arguing, we're exchanging ideas.
It's cool. I know that was your intention.
While I totally believe we can reduce CO2 (starting with building clean power like nuclear
), I don't believe any reduction will be enough to change what has already happened. Part of human survival is adaptation and if sea level rising causes people to move to higher ground, then that's what they will do. We already war over idiotic things like borders, drugs, and politics, which we have total control over, and inevitably we will fight over resources. Sea water can be desalinized, it's just expensive, so I doubt we'll ever run out of water, but if it came to that maybe people will be more conscious about how they use it. Especially in America, waste of resources is normal (that's why we have huge houses with big heating and cooling bills, SUV or big trucks) and until the resources run low, no one will care.
I do believe that human CO2 is assisting a "higher" temperature flux, I'm just not convinced that it's human CO2 that is the total cause of the warming. But I do believe we have much better options, especially in energy usage, that would reduce the emissions. As human civilization being at stake, I don't take that from them seriously.
While I believe what you think can be done is attainable, until meat prices actually get out of hand, I don't believe we'll see a reduction in consumption.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I have to agree.
ninerbuff
godless wonder
After looking at this and other links, I will concede that human CO2 exceeds that of what volcanoes put out. See, I can admit being wrong.
ninerbuff
godless wonder
Money has a way of disassociation with cruel acts. But again, there will be very few that will be willing to raise their own meat because of the work involved in it. And while they can eat prepacked meat, can some actually kill their own food?