PETA: are you for them or against them?

[Katzpur]

Me, I despise them for most of their over the top antics. Throwing paint on someone's fur coat because they are against fur is hostile in my opinion. Or blowing up labs because of animal testing, where these tests are needed to ensure that safety of human uses of medicine or products for human consumption.

Thoughts?

I honestly wish I knew how much of what they had to say I could really believe. I would like to be able to know of a really reliable source of information on which companies, for instance, test their products on animals and which ones don't. You go to PETA's website and it's just frustrating. To them, everybody is the enemy. I am very, very concerned about animal rights, but these people just seem to be, as you said, "over the top." I deplore their tactics and because I do, I can't support them, however well-intentioned they might be.

 

[Panda]

I don't like PETA or what they stand for.

 

[Valjean]

Humans being the dominant species of Earth. That is unless of course some bacteria kills us off.

But does being 'dominant' confer special rights or put us in a unique moral category? Does it make us 'better' or 'higher' than a pigeon or sheep?
There have been many "dominant" conquerors in history. Were they better than those they conquered? Was their dominance just and right?

Look at ice core samples. CO2 trapped in ice core samples show the increase and decrease of CO2 dating back 400,000 years. As the CO2 rose, so did the temperature.......and there wasn't any industry involved.

These atmospheric changes were usually slow or episodic. Today's is fast and sustained -- and increasing

Climate is observed over long periods of time. Yes, it's getting warmer, but it has been "cool" for the last 10,000 years. We were due for a warm up.

We are in a warm up. The "little ice age" ended around 1865, but another, man-made, catastrophic change began shortly before -- the industrial revolution.
This sudden, fast "catastrophic" climatic factor is all on us.

Well funding Rodney Coranado's defense for the destruction of property, by the tune of 70,000 dollars would be a good example. Coranado is an ALF member and described by Ingrid Newkirk as a fine young man.

I've met Rod, and I concur.

 

[Vendetta]

Actually being the dominant rational species does include special rights. Because we have capabilities to create and destroy our planet have a greater duty to life on the planet. Morally, we do have different and higher standards than let's say a lion. A lion doesn't ask the male gazalle if he has a newborn, nor does the lion ask the deer how his day was. Humans have a choice whether for please or for survival to allow life to thrive or die. Because we have the abilitiy to affect an entire planet we are definitely on a different level than animals.

 

[Alceste]

PETA gives money to ALF. If they were totally against everything ALF does, then they would not give them a dime.

You can youtube Ingrid Newkirk's interviews.

And I like my local SPCA. Information on spading and neutering as well as educating on good care of pets.

Not exactly a neutral source - a cat breeder? Peta is generally opposed to the pet trade, so it stands to reason that pet traders would generally be opposed to PETA.

 

[ninerbuff]

But does being 'dominant' confer special rights or put us in a unique moral category? Does it make us 'better' or 'higher' than a pigeon or sheep?
There have been many "dominant" conquerors in history. Were they better than those they conquered? Was their dominance just and right?

We aren't out to "conquer" animals. In fact most will agree that animals have some rights. We have preservations that are directed toward them and help protect them. So if the idea was to just obliterate and completely rule animals, it could have been done.

These atmospheric changes were usually slow or episodic. Today's is fast and sustained -- and increasing

There have been eras where there the CO2 was much higher than today (think prehistoric) and animals with much larger appetites that ate vegetation by the tons still survived for millions of years. I think we'll be okay.

We are in a warm up. The "little ice age" ended around 1865, but another, man-made, catastrophic change began shortly before -- the industrial revolution.
This sudden, fast "catastrophic" climatic factor is all on us.

Get ready for another ice age. Humans adapt. So do animals. It's been that way for thousands of years.

I've met Rod, and I concur.

that he's a domestic terrorist or that he's a fine young man? Most fine young men don't blow up labs or are arsonists.

 

[Alceste]

There is a difference between humans, and other animals. Yes, humans are animals, but there is a very large distinction between the two. Which is why we are not classified as just animals, but the classification system goes much further.

Yes, there are some sick treatment of animals out there. However, a lot of it is also over exaggerated. I've worked on various farms, and the animals, for the most part, are treated very humanely. And the thing is, people raise those animals for nothing more than to be food. Abusing the animals produces a lesser quality product, which fetches less money, and thus is a loss for the business.

Again, yes, some of the treatment, in some facilities, are not always the best. But that is a minority, and is greatly blown out of proportion. And yes, there is a difference between humans and animals. Killing chickens is not like exterminating Jews during the Holocaust. That is simply insulting, and devalues human life, which is why the whole thing even happened.

Our meat doesn't come from quaint little hobby farms with happy animals running free. It comes from places like this:

You may personally prefer humans to other species, and you may feel for religious reasons that we are entitled to more humane treatment than other species, but that does not change the fact our society treats animals the same way (or worse) than the Nazis treated Jewish people, homosexuals, gypsies and other undesirables in WWII.

 

[ninerbuff]

Not exactly a neutral source - a cat breeder? Peta is generally opposed to the pet trade, so it stands to reason that pet traders would generally be opposed to PETA.

I don't care about what PETA wants. My local SPCA is good with animal rescue and adoption with unwanted animals.

 

[Vendetta]

Our meat doesn't come from quaint little hobby farms with happy animals running free. It comes from places like this:

You may personally prefer humans to other species, and you may feel for religious reasons that we are entitled to more humane treatment than other species, but that does not change the fact our society treats animals the same way (or worse) than the Nazis treated Jewish people, homosexuals, gypsies and other undesirables in WWII.

Are you a vegetarian?

 

[ninerbuff]

Our meat doesn't come from quaint little hobby farms with happy animals running free. It comes from places like this:

You may personally prefer humans to other species, and you may feel for religious reasons that we are entitled to more humane treatment than other species, but that does not change the fact our society treats animals the same way (or worse) than the Nazis treated Jewish people, homosexuals, gypsies and other undesirables in WWII.

I disagree. Animals aren't starved to death. Nor gassed. Or shot. Of suffer from disease and left to die.
To associate what the Jews went through and animal farming is BS.

 

[Alceste]

That doesn't make any sense. I don't even know what to think.

This is a better article (has names and details and isn't almost entirely pointless, partisan axe-grinding): No Kill NOW! PETA KILLS

Apparently PETA is euthanizing shelter animals by injection to prevent them from less humane fates such as being shot, drowned or gassed. Lesser of two evils, I suppose.

 

[Alceste]

Again you are misinformed on climate change. Climate change happens in cycles. Look at the Younger Dryas. Climbing temperatures before a cooling. And there wasn't any industrial influence back then.
And if genetically altered wheat was allowed in "starving countries" they wouldn't be starving.
We've been doing industrial fishing for years. There are even "fish farms" raising fish to reduce the amount of mercury contamination.
I think you're speaking more out of compassion of animals than actual fact.

And I think you read too many American papers. Your perspective on global warning, GM food and industrial fishing is questionable, to say the very least.

 

[Vendetta]

Alcaste I say again are.you vegetarian?

 

[Madhuri]

I hate PETA. HATE.

I'm a vegetarian but there's nothing I like better than wiping the blood off my plate with a biscuit after eating a medium rare ribeye. YUM.

This just made me feel queasy :cover:

 

[Alceste]

Are you a vegetarian?

I was a vegetarian for 15 years. Then I began to eat a small amount of meat - mostly chicken and fish - for health reasons. I do what I can to source my food locally from humane producers and intend to eventually catch my own fish and raise my own chickens and do my killing myself. I may one day build up to bagging the occasional wild rabbit or deer. It's a fact of life that everything has to eat something, but I do not see any justification for the appalling conditions we impose on the animals we eat in order to maximize profit.

 

[Madhuri]

Actually being the dominant rational species does include special rights. Because we have capabilities to create and destroy our planet have a greater duty to life on the planet.

I actually think this means we should take more responsibility on our shoulders. We have the ability to do great damage or great wonders. But most of us are too stupid/selfish and that's why everywhere humans go there is destruction. The meat industry is one of the most shameful things in existence today.

 

[Alceste]

I disagree. Animals aren't starved to death. Nor gassed. Or shot. Of suffer from disease and left to die.
To associate what the Jews went through and animal farming is BS.

Yes, unwanted pets are starved to death and neglected by their owners, or they are gassed and shot by the agencies that intervene in cases of mistreatment or neglect.

 

[Vendetta]

I was a vegetarian for 15 years. Then I began to eat a small amount of meat - mostly chicken and fish - for health reasons. I do what I can to source my food locally from humane producers and intend to eventually catch my own fish and raise my own chickens and do my killing myself. I may one day build up to bagging the occasional wild rabbit or deer. It's a fact of life that everything has to eat something, but I do not see any justification for the appalling conditions we impose on the animals we eat in order to maximize profit.

Lol actually it was a question you really didn't have to justify anything.

 

[Madhuri]

I disagree. Animals aren't starved to death. Nor gassed. Or shot. Of suffer from disease and left to die.

Wait, what? You're kidding right?
Bolt guns are one of the methods of killing animals (like cows). A lot of these animals get diseases because of the poor conditions. Swine are often gassed in order to render them unconscious before slaughter.

Wow, these conditions are so much better than the nazi camps!

 

[Alceste]

Right, having caught up on the thread, I'll tackle the OP. If I were going to support an animal rights and welfare organization, it wouldn't be PETA. If I looked, I'm confident I could find a no kill animal shelter to support, organizations that promote humane agricultural practices and organizations that lobby for the protection of habitats for endangered species. I would be looking for organizations that have goals that are achievable, ethics that are pragmatic, a communication strategy that is persuasive and real solutions to the problems they perceive.

I don't think PETA fits the bill on any of those counts. Nevertheless, I don't object to them because at the end of the day they are the extremists in comparison to whom I look reasonable. If they were out of the picture, I would be the extremist.