Picture of Mars vs. the earth. So how did Moses know?

[MyM]

Moses didn't write the Book of Genesis.

 

[YoursTrue]

Because whoever was writing Genesis was using older legends to write their own creation story. That type of imagery was common. Genesis is similar to the 2 Mesopotamian creation stories and the flood story is similar to Noah.

One Greek creation myth starts out with - "He begins with Chaos, a yawning nothingness. Out of the void emerged Gaia (the Earth) a..."

waste and void. Very common in creation narratives.

"The Genesis creation narrative is the creation myth[a] of both Judaism and Christianity....It expounds themes parallel to those in Mesopotamian mythology, emphasizing the Israelite people's belief in one God...Comparative mythology provides historical and cross-cultural perspectives for Jewish mythology. Both sources behind the Genesis creation narrative borrowed themes from Mesopotamian mythology
Genesis 1–11 as a whole is imbued with Mesopotamian myths.
The Enuma Elish has also left traces on Genesis 2.
Genesis creation narrative - Wikipedia

Genesis is written down around the 7-5th century:

"
Religion Identity and the Origins of Ancient Israel.

KL Sparks, PhD Hebrew Bible, Baptist Pastor,

As a rule, modern scholars do not believe that the Bible’s account of early Israel’s history provides a wholly accurate portrait of Israels origins. One reason for this is that the earliest part of Israel’s history in Genesis is now regarded as something other than a work of modern history. It’s primary author was at best an ancient historian (if a historian at all) who lived long after the events he narrated, and who drew freely from sources that were not historical (legends and theological stories), he was more concerned with theology than with the modern quest to learn “what actually happened” (Van Seters 1992; Sparks 2002 pp. 37-71)

"

I wasn't there, of course. However, the history as given by Moses makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[YoursTrue]

Moses didn't write the Book of Genesis.

Likely Moses heard accounts from others passed down but it was God who motivated Moses to write down what he knew and believed.

 

[YoursTrue]

I understand you perfectly well, as I understand all theists. After all, I too was a vacillating atheist for half my life (i.e., 40 years) before I rejected the idea. I was correcting my own mistake where I mentioned that your statement under stated the period by a hundred thousand. It is actually a million times less.

Since I was an atheist, I understand it in an opposite way from you. The heavens show, speak, or tell the glory of God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"To you your belief, to me mine." Quran - al-Kafirun

 

[MyM]

Likely Moses heard accounts from others passed down but it was God who motivated Moses to write down what he knew and believed.

To me, that doesn't work either. In the first 5 books of the Old Testament, 700 times we are told this is not the book of God. And the Lord said unto Moses, and Moses said unto Lord and Lord said unto Moses and Moses said unto the Lord. Which means the lord did write it nor did Moses write it. Then, these 5 books in the last book of Deuteronomy chapter 34:5-6, "So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord and he buried him in a valley in Moab over against Beth-peor:but no man knoweth of his sepulcher until this day."

10-"And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim; nor his natural force abated."
11-"And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses whom the Lord knew face to face."

Died is past tense. He WAS... so that is saying it wasn't Moses that wrote the books. Moses didn't write it nor do they know who wrote it. The Lord didn't claim nor endorse the Bible. Many Christian Theologians/scholars have come to this same conclusion.

When I was a Christian, it was hard for me to get out of my head to understand such things because it was what I was taught for years on end, over and over but when I stepped out of that reality and into my own, I took a step back and really looked at what the Bible was tellin me.

 

[Brian2]

Moses didn't write the Book of Genesis.

How do you know that?

 

[Brian2]

To me, that doesn't work either. In the first 5 books of the Old Testament, 700 times we are told this is not the book of God. And the Lord said unto Moses, and Moses said unto Lord and Lord said unto Moses and Moses said unto the Lord. Which means the lord did write it nor did Moses write it. Then, these 5 books in the last book of Deuteronomy chapter 34:5-6, "So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord and he buried him in a valley in Moab over against Beth-peor:but no man knoweth of his sepulcher until this day."

10-"And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim; nor his natural force abated."
11-"And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses whom the Lord knew face to face."

Died is past tense. He WAS... so that is saying it wasn't Moses that wrote the books. Moses didn't write it nor do they know who wrote it. The Lord didn't claim nor endorse the Bible. Many Christian Theologians/scholars have come to this same conclusion.

When I was a Christian, it was hard for me to get out of my head to understand such things because it was what I was taught for years on end, over and over but when I stepped out of that reality and into my own, I took a step back and really looked at what the Bible was tellin me.

Certainly parts of the Pentateuch were not written by Moses but Moses speaking of himself in the third person does not mean that Moses did not write it or dictate it.
Redactors who rounded books off and joined books smoothly etc does not mean that the redactors made anything up.

 

[Brian2]

Actually we already know a great deal about this. The universe works on probabilities. The most probable tends to happen and less probable happens less. But it still can happen. Quantum mechanics backs this up and we see it in every aspect of reality.
If 100 people get an illness with a 30% mortality rate it doesn't matter how many people pray for certain people, we will see ~30% succumb. It it's 90% then generally 9 out of 10 will die. The remaining person of course will believe God saved them because "it wasn't my time" . We know humans suffer from "over-agency", giving personification to random things. This is a biological trait.
People with illness are doing the most praying and having many people pray for them. Yet the statistics always play out.
The same amount of people die in traffic accidents that are yearly averages. No deity saves them. Until some traffic safety measure is added that has actual value, then we see a change. This will give a new statistic which again will always be followed. 10 million children under 7 die every year. This never changes. When something significant is added to the equation like a new medicine that helps a common child disease this will change. But we are clearly at the mercy of probability. In daily life we don't see this and can pretend deities answer prayers. But look at the overall picture and you see it's within the probabilities.
Life starting has a low probability on one planet. Luckily there seem to be trillions of planets and trillions of days for this to happen.
If there are many universes, quadrillions or more, it's almost certain one will have properties for life to form, but would still be fairly dangerous.
That describes our universe exactly. We could be wiped out any year by an asteroid, pandemic, supervolcano or other disasters.

How does probability even apply to how many habitable planets there are or could be?
That is no more than assumption that life can develop anywhere in the right conditions.
How is it possible to test whether God is answering prayers? God is not a thing that you can test using measurements like you have.

 

[Brian2]

I am not an "intelligent design" person. Strange, that you ask me this question. You should answer that. Universe is "alive" in its own way, like sodium is when put in water, reaction happens. Do you mean that this is consciousness? Of water and sodium! Other things also happen in this way. As for why it happens and from where these forces have arisen, science does not have a fool-proof theory, though they have made great advance in the last 200 years. But the answer still lies in future. But why do you worry? You have the God of Gaps - and the mantra "Goddidit".

So it is just your guess that the universe has no design and that matter can become aware of itself and of the universe.
And it sounds like you have the "science of the Gaps", which is when you say that science will find an naturalistic answer to all those things that God (the Bible God) has said that He did and science cannot find any answers.
I don't have any mantras.

 

[Brian2]

I understand you perfectly well, as I understand all theists. After all, I too was a vacillating atheist for half my life (i.e., 40 years) before I rejected the idea. I was correcting my own mistake where I mentioned that your statement under stated the period by a hundred thousand. It is actually a million times less.

I know what you were doing but I did not make a mistake to begin with. The description is from over 3000 years ago. iow when Genesis was written was over 3000 years ago.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Understatement by a factor of one million is sure a mistake.

So it is just your guess that the universe has no design and that matter can become aware of itself and of the universe.
And it sounds like you have the "science of the Gaps", which is when you say that science will find an naturalistic answer to all those things that God (the Bible God) has said that He did and science cannot find any answers.

I do not see any evidence of design. What exists is explained by science except for one question - "Where from all this arose?" You too have no answer for that except 'Goddidit", which explains nothing. You do not have any evidence for existence of God or that he sent any "savior". Sure, there may have been a Jesus who was crucified by Romans. That too has no historical evidence.

 

[MyM]

Certainly parts of the Pentateuch were not written by Moses but Moses speaking of himself in the third person does not mean that Moses did not write it or dictate it.
Redactors who rounded books off and joined books smoothly etc does not mean that the redactors made anything up.

See, the one thing that was written were the 10 commandments. Where are they? Were they destroyed????

In Islam, it says that Moses submitted to One God, just like those that came before him and the prophets and messengers that came after him. Not one prophet or messenger taught the trinity. There is no proof.

 

[Brian2]

See, the one thing that was written were the 10 commandments. Where are they? Were they destroyed????

In Islam, it says that Moses submitted to One God, just like those that came before him and the prophets and messengers that came after him. Not one prophet or messenger taught the trinity. There is no proof.

Are the original documents supposed to exist thousands of years later?
God taught Moses that He is one but more than one.
"One" in Deut 6:4 speaks of a compound unity.
When the Angel (messenger) of the LORD appeared to Moses in the burning bush He spoke as if He is God.
When God said that He would go with Moses and Israel in the wilderness what He meant was that His Spirit would go with them.
Just as Muhammad is anti trinity so also he is anti Christian gospel and so anti Christ.

 

[MyM]

Are the original documents supposed to exist thousands of years later?
God taught Moses that He is one but more than one.
"One" in Deut 6:4 speaks of a compound unity.
When the Angel (messenger) of the LORD appeared to Moses in the burning bush He spoke as if He is God.
When God said that He would go with Moses and Israel in the wilderness what He meant was that His Spirit would go with them.
Just as Muhammad is anti trinity so also he is anti Christian gospel and so anti Christ.

Actually, Yes, In Islam, the word of God the Quran will last until the end times.

Until as early as the 19th century people thought they were from Moses, but now, the scholars have found out that they are not from Moses.
In Islam, you cannot be a Muslim if you don't believe in Jesus. We believe he is a mighty messenger of God, healed the blind, deaf etc with God's permission because we know he cannot do anything but through God (his words), we believe that he is born from the Virgin Maryam, we believe he in the second coming and we love Jesus. His real name isn't Jesus (Eesa alayhi salam-Jesus on him peace). But in Islam, we just don't believe that Jesus came with anything new, that he was only sent to the house of Israel and he professed ONE GOD. He did say he wasn't to come to change the law, but to fullfill it correct? So the Jews, never believed in the trinity, nor did Abraham, Noah, etc. ...was all monotheism.

 

[Brian2]

Understatement by a factor of one million is sure a mistake.

I do not see any evidence of design. What exists is explained by science except for one question - "Where from all this arose?" You too have no answer for that except 'Goddidit", which explains nothing. You do not have any evidence for existence of God or that he sent any "savior". Sure, there may have been a Jesus who was crucified by Romans. That too has no historical evidence.

You see no design in the 3 billions base pairs in the human genome?
Science does not know how it became a control system and code that governs human growth and function,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but no doubt there has to be a naturalistic answer, it cannot have been designed as a control centre.
You and science deny the evidence that God has given us for His existence.
Skeptics have also attacked the authenticity of the Bible and everything about the Bible in the name of scepticism and also the naturalistic methodology of science and tried to drag it down from being evidence and you learn the same lies from each other and don't realise the illogical and circular reasoning behind most of it.
In my opinion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Science knows it. Science cloned Dolly the sheep. We can now change the DNA. What are GM crops? What is stem cell treatment? And a pig's heart in a human body! You are in denial of all that.

 

[MyM]

Science knows it. Science cloned Dolly the sheep. We can now change the DNA. What are GM crops? What is stem cell treatment? And a pig's heart in a human body! You are in denial of all that.

A human is changing and doing it. God created the apes, God created the humans...if apes are evolving, then why can't they think, why can't they hold a job? This isn't Planet of the Apes Movie lol Give me one ape that transformed since man has come into being? There isn't one! It's all conjecture. I mean pigs are close to human DNA as well 84% so you gonna say we evolved from pigs as well?

 

[Brian2]

Science knows it. Science cloned Dolly the sheep. We can now change the DNA. What are GM crops? What is stem cell treatment? And a pig's heart in a human body! You are in denial of all that.

How am I denying all that?
So we can understand it enough to manipulate it but how does that show that the genetic control centre came about naturally?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hah, apes and chimps do not think! No joke bigger than that.
The latest news is that the gold fish can drive. I have not gone through the detail. Read it here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Gol...pAYgBhBOSAQQwLjE5mAEAoAEBsAEK&sclient=gws-wiz

No we did not evolve from pigs, but they are cousins. Both, humans and pigs are "mammalias" (that is who feed milk to their young), but the "order" differs. For humans, it is "Primates", for pigs, it is "Artiyodactyla" (even toed hoofed animals, which includes Jiraffes, hippos, antelopes, camels, llamas, alpacas, sheep, goat, cattle. Also Whales, dolphins, porpoises, etc.). Get some education, my friend.