• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Picture of Mars vs. the earth. So how did Moses know?

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
not really, I don't wanna get into this sorry. I am suffering with Covid now and not in the mood to seriously think about something that I know from my Creator, to be false :) maybe you can find another Muslim to enlighten or Christian about the theory of Darwinism. It's too much of a headache. sorry

Then I would suggest not participating in conversations to which you are so ill-informed as to get all the details wrong.

I'm sorry to hear you have COVID. I wish you a swift recovery.

“He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questioned” al-Anbiya’ 21:23
So just blindly accept whatever the Quran says? No thanks. I want to believe in true things and that's not how we go about discovering true things.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
Then I would suggest not participating in conversations to which you are so ill-informed as to get all the details wrong.

I'm sorry to hear you have COVID. I wish you a swift recovery.


So just blindly accept whatever the Quran says? No thanks. I want to believe in true things and that's not how we go about discovering true things.


ty :)

I agree don't follow it blindly. find out :)
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
not really, I don't wanna get into this sorry.

I know that you don't want to get into it.
You've made it very clear already that you don't have the slightest interest to learn what evolution theory really is all about, what it really says.

All you seem to care about is repeating your misrepresentations / strawmen ad nauseum while waving your religious narrative.

That's fine. Just be honest about it.

I asked you a few posts back if it doesn't bother you that every you say about the subject is simply incorrect, that every objection you raise to the theory is invalid because of that.

Care to answer?
I'm genuinely interested why it is that you are so proudly willfully ignorant on the subject and categorically refuse to read up.

I get that it doesn't interest you. I get that your religious beliefs are more important to you. I get that your dogmatic religious beliefs means that you will be rejecting anything at face value if it contradicts said beliefs, regardless of what it is or by what evidence it is supported.

But at least be honest about that position.

You shouldn't be in threads like this arguing against evolution if that is your approach and position on the matter.

How do you think it makes you (and by extension, your religious beliefs) look when you insist on arguing strawmen even after they have been pointed out to you?

I am suffering with Covid now and not in the mood to seriously think about something that I know from my Creator, to be false :) maybe you can find another Muslim to enlighten or Christian about the theory of Darwinism. It's too much of a headache. sorry

“He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questioned” al-Anbiya’ 21:23

Sorry, but that is a pathetic excuse.
Covid has nothing to do with it. You weren't interested in learning about the theory before you had covid and you will not be interested in after either.

Be honest. Be truthful.


And I hope you'll heal quickly with no need to go by the hospital.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
I know that you don't want to get into it.
You've made it very clear already that you don't have the slightest interest to learn what evolution theory really is all about, what it really says.

All you seem to care about is repeating your misrepresentations / strawmen ad nauseum while waving your religious narrative.

That's fine. Just be honest about it.

I asked you a few posts back if it doesn't bother you that every you say about the subject is simply incorrect, that every objection you raise to the theory is invalid because of that.

Care to answer?
I'm genuinely interested why it is that you are so proudly willfully ignorant on the subject and categorically refuse to read up.

I get that it doesn't interest you. I get that your religious beliefs are more important to you. I get that your dogmatic religious beliefs means that you will be rejecting anything at face value if it contradicts said beliefs, regardless of what it is or by what evidence it is supported.

But at least be honest about that position.

You shouldn't be in threads like this arguing against evolution if that is your approach and position on the matter.

How do you think it makes you (and by extension, your religious beliefs) look when you insist on arguing strawmen even after they have been pointed out to you?



Sorry, but that is a pathetic excuse.
Covid has nothing to do with it. You weren't interested in learning about the theory before you had covid and you will not be interested in after either.

Be honest. Be truthful.


And I hope you'll heal quickly with no need to go by the hospital.

ty :)

As I said, I don't want to get into it and I am being truthful. I believe what I believe and I have proven from my side why.

It is no excuse, it's just a vicious circle to get into and I really am not up to it.

I don't have to get into it with you or any athiest about evolution because you will not see other's points as well. Sorry, just not in the mood to deal with stuff like that. Go find someone else to go in circles with. I won't do it. It's a waste of time.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Care to answer?
I'm genuinely interested why it is that you are so proudly willfully ignorant on the subject and categorically refuse to read up.

I get that it doesn't interest you. I get that your religious beliefs are more important to you. I get that your dogmatic religious beliefs means that you will be rejecting anything at face value if it contradicts said beliefs, regardless of what it is or by what evidence it is supported.

But at least be honest about that position.

You shouldn't be in threads like this arguing against evolution if that is your approach and position on the matter.
This cuts right to the heart of the matter. The religious arguments against evolution are all scripts and shadowplay.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
As fiction the Bible contains some metaphors that have wisdom. That is proven. The myths themselves are all re-workings of older cultures myths. The supernatural happenings are not proven. Not one single iota of proof. Archaeology shows that the historical narrative is wrong. Israelites did not come from Egypt but from Canaan. There was no armed conflict. Exodus is a national foundation myth written around the time the Hebrew kings were returning to Judea when the Persian kings decided to let them return. King Solomons kingdom was much more modest than written. Judea was a small hill town. This goes on and on. The Gods and beings in the story are as fiction as the Gods in Greek myths.
Why you would mention Einstein leading up to a mention of the Bible is bizarre? The secret is out? It isn't history.

But who are you talking to? Yourself? A guardian angel? You did not answer any points? I demonstrated Genesis is a re-working of Mesopotamian myths, Noah is taken from Gilamesh and modern historians have the benefit of seeing all this literature now so we can see that this is religious syncretism in action.
Your response is to compare a physicist (who relies on proofs) and make some vague statement? Yes so much is proven. It's proven that the legends in the OT are re-used myths?

"The legend of Moses, rather than being that of a historical Hebrew character, is found from the Mediterranean to India, with the character having different names and races, depending on the locale: "Manou" is the Indian legislator. "Nemo the lawgiver," who brought down the tablets from the Mountain of God, hails from Babylon. "Mises" is found in Syria, where he was pulled out of a basket floating in a river. Mises also had tablets of stone upon which laws were written and a rod with which he did miracles, including parting waters and leading his army across the sea. In addition, "Manes the lawgiver" took the stage in Egypt, and "Minos" was the Cretan reformer.
Jacolliot traces the original Moses to the Indian Manou: "This name of Manou, or Manes . . . is not a substantive, applying to an individual man; its Sanscrit signification is the man, par excellence, the legislator. It is a title aspired to by all the leaders of men in antiquity."
Like Moses, Krishna was placed by his mother in a reed boat and set adrift in a river to be discovered by another woman. The Akkadian Sargon also was placed in a reed basket and set adrift to save his life. In fact, "The name Moses is Egyptian and comes from mo, the Egyptian word for water, and uses, meaning saved from water, in this case, primordial." Thus, this title Moses could be applied to any of these various heroes saved from the water.

Walker elaborates on the Moses myth:

"The Moses tale was originally that of an Egyptian hero, Ra-Harakhti, the reborn sun god of Canopus, whose life story was copied by biblical scholars. The same story was told of the sun hero fathered by Apollo on the virgin Creusa; of Sargon, king of Akkad in 2242 B.C.; and of the mythological twin founders of Rome, among many other baby heroes set adrift in rush baskets. It was a common theme."

Furthermore, Moses's rod is a magical, astrology stick used by a number of other mythical characters. Of Moses's miraculous exploits, Walker also relates:

"Moses's flowering rod, river of blood, and tablets of the law were all symbols of the ancient Goddess. His miracle of drawing water from a rock was first performed by Mother Rhea after she gave birth to Zeus, and by Atalanta with the help of Artemis. His miracle of drying up the waters to travel dry-shod was earlier performed by Isis, or Hathor, on her way to Byblos."

And Higgins states:

"In Bacchus we evidently have Moses. Herodotus says [Bacchus] was an Egyptian . . . The Orphic verses relate that he was preserved from the waters, in a little box or chest, that he was called Misem in commemoration of the event; that he was instructed in all the secrets of the Gods; and that he had a rod, which he changed into a serpent at his pleasure; that he passed through the Red Sea dry-shod, as Hercules subsequently did . . . and that when he went to India, he and his army enjoyed the light of the Sun during the night: moreover, it is said, that he touched with his magic rod the waters of the great rivers Orontes and Hydaspes; upon which those waters flowed back and left him a free passage. It is even said that he arrested the course of the sun and moon. He wrote his laws on two tablets of stone. He was anciently represented with horns or rays on his head."
In addition, the miraculous "parting of the Red Sea" has forever mystified the naive and credulous masses and scholars alike, who have put forth all sorts of tortured speculation to explain it. The parting and destruction of the hosts of Pharaoh at the Red Sea is not recorded by any known historian, which is understandable, since it is, of course, not historical and is found in other cultures, including in Ceylon, out of which the conquering shepherd kings (Pharaohs) were driven across "Adam's Bridge" and drowned. This motif is also found in the Hawaiian and Hottentot versions of the Moses myth, prior to contact with outside cultures. The crossing of the Red Sea is astronomical, expressly stated by Josephus to have occurred at the autumnal equinox, indicating its origin within the mythos.

Moreover, the famed Ten Commandments are simply a repetition of the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi and the Hindu Vedas, among others. As Churchward says:

"The 'Law of Moses' were the old Egyptian Laws . . . ; this the stele or 'Code of Hammurabi' conclusively proves. Moses lived 1,000 years after this stone was engraved."

Walker relates that the "stone tablets of law supposedly given to Moses were copied from the Canaanite god Baal-Berith, 'God of the Covenant.' Their Ten Commandments were similar to the commandments of the Buddhist Decalogue. In the ancient world, laws generally came from a deity on a mountaintop. Zoroaster received the tablets of law from Ahura Mazda on a mountaintop."

Doane sums it up when he says, "Almost all the acts of Moses correspond to those of the Sun-gods." However, the Moses story is also reflective of the stellar cult, once again demonstrating the dual natured "twin" Horus-Set myth and the battle for supremacy between the day and night skies, as well as among the solar, stellar and lunar cults. . . . [end excerpt]

As has been demonstrated, the Moses fable is an ancient mythological motif found in numerous cultures. It therefore has nothing to do with any particular ethnic group, and the character Moses is not the founder of the Jewish ideology. Like so many others, this story as presented represents racist rubbish and cultural bigotry.








They actually did represent the Bible in a manner that was truthful to their interpretation. There is no standard truth of scripture. Interpretations can fit whatever any theologian leader decides to make it.
Pick an issue, hell, salvation, trinity, then look at. the Wiki page. Endless versions of interpretations, hundreds of denominations.
You and I were not there when the Bible was written. Therefore -- we can only assume, or figure things out. Obviously there are different schools of thought or ways of looking at things. I thought about the transmission over the centuries of the Bible, the writings from Moses on down to the prophets and extensive history insofar as an ancient history book goes. And I have come to believe it is from God. From my understanding, I do realize that not all will agree with that.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
This cuts right to the heart of the matter. The religious arguments against evolution are all scripts and shadowplay.
It depends what you see. (how you see it.) Scientists sometimes (not always) claim that God had no hand in this. That does not mean that is true though.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
not really, I don't wanna get into this sorry. I am suffering with Covid now and not in the mood to seriously think about something that I know from my Creator, to be false :) maybe you can find another Muslim to enlighten or Christian about the theory of Darwinism. It's too much of a headache. sorry

“He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questioned” al-Anbiya’ 21:23
Sorry you're suffering with Covid, hope you feel better soon.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
As fiction the Bible contains some metaphors that have wisdom. That is proven. The myths themselves are all re-workings of older cultures myths. The supernatural happenings are not proven. Not one single iota of proof. Archaeology shows that the historical narrative is wrong. Israelites did not come from Egypt but from Canaan. There was no armed conflict. Exodus is a national foundation myth written around the time the Hebrew kings were returning to Judea when the Persian kings decided to let them return. King Solomons kingdom was much more modest than written. Judea was a small hill town. This goes on and on. The Gods and beings in the story are as fiction as the Gods in Greek myths.
Why you would mention Einstein leading up to a mention of the Bible is bizarre? The secret is out? It isn't history.

But who are you talking to? Yourself? A guardian angel? You did not answer any points? I demonstrated Genesis is a re-working of Mesopotamian myths, Noah is taken from Gilamesh and modern historians have the benefit of seeing all this literature now so we can see that this is religious syncretism in action.
Your response is to compare a physicist (who relies on proofs) and make some vague statement? Yes so much is proven. It's proven that the legends in the OT are re-used myths?

"The legend of Moses, rather than being that of a historical Hebrew character, is found from the Mediterranean to India, with the character having different names and races, depending on the locale: "Manou" is the Indian legislator. "Nemo the lawgiver," who brought down the tablets from the Mountain of God, hails from Babylon. "Mises" is found in Syria, where he was pulled out of a basket floating in a river. Mises also had tablets of stone upon which laws were written and a rod with which he did miracles, including parting waters and leading his army across the sea. In addition, "Manes the lawgiver" took the stage in Egypt, and "Minos" was the Cretan reformer.
Jacolliot traces the original Moses to the Indian Manou: "This name of Manou, or Manes . . . is not a substantive, applying to an individual man; its Sanscrit signification is the man, par excellence, the legislator. It is a title aspired to by all the leaders of men in antiquity."
Like Moses, Krishna was placed by his mother in a reed boat and set adrift in a river to be discovered by another woman. The Akkadian Sargon also was placed in a reed basket and set adrift to save his life. In fact, "The name Moses is Egyptian and comes from mo, the Egyptian word for water, and uses, meaning saved from water, in this case, primordial." Thus, this title Moses could be applied to any of these various heroes saved from the water.

Walker elaborates on the Moses myth:

"The Moses tale was originally that of an Egyptian hero, Ra-Harakhti, the reborn sun god of Canopus, whose life story was copied by biblical scholars. The same story was told of the sun hero fathered by Apollo on the virgin Creusa; of Sargon, king of Akkad in 2242 B.C.; and of the mythological twin founders of Rome, among many other baby heroes set adrift in rush baskets. It was a common theme."

Furthermore, Moses's rod is a magical, astrology stick used by a number of other mythical characters. Of Moses's miraculous exploits, Walker also relates:

"Moses's flowering rod, river of blood, and tablets of the law were all symbols of the ancient Goddess. His miracle of drawing water from a rock was first performed by Mother Rhea after she gave birth to Zeus, and by Atalanta with the help of Artemis. His miracle of drying up the waters to travel dry-shod was earlier performed by Isis, or Hathor, on her way to Byblos."

And Higgins states:

"In Bacchus we evidently have Moses. Herodotus says [Bacchus] was an Egyptian . . . The Orphic verses relate that he was preserved from the waters, in a little box or chest, that he was called Misem in commemoration of the event; that he was instructed in all the secrets of the Gods; and that he had a rod, which he changed into a serpent at his pleasure; that he passed through the Red Sea dry-shod, as Hercules subsequently did . . . and that when he went to India, he and his army enjoyed the light of the Sun during the night: moreover, it is said, that he touched with his magic rod the waters of the great rivers Orontes and Hydaspes; upon which those waters flowed back and left him a free passage. It is even said that he arrested the course of the sun and moon. He wrote his laws on two tablets of stone. He was anciently represented with horns or rays on his head."
In addition, the miraculous "parting of the Red Sea" has forever mystified the naive and credulous masses and scholars alike, who have put forth all sorts of tortured speculation to explain it. The parting and destruction of the hosts of Pharaoh at the Red Sea is not recorded by any known historian, which is understandable, since it is, of course, not historical and is found in other cultures, including in Ceylon, out of which the conquering shepherd kings (Pharaohs) were driven across "Adam's Bridge" and drowned. This motif is also found in the Hawaiian and Hottentot versions of the Moses myth, prior to contact with outside cultures. The crossing of the Red Sea is astronomical, expressly stated by Josephus to have occurred at the autumnal equinox, indicating its origin within the mythos.

Moreover, the famed Ten Commandments are simply a repetition of the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi and the Hindu Vedas, among others. As Churchward says:

"The 'Law of Moses' were the old Egyptian Laws . . . ; this the stele or 'Code of Hammurabi' conclusively proves. Moses lived 1,000 years after this stone was engraved."

Walker relates that the "stone tablets of law supposedly given to Moses were copied from the Canaanite god Baal-Berith, 'God of the Covenant.' Their Ten Commandments were similar to the commandments of the Buddhist Decalogue. In the ancient world, laws generally came from a deity on a mountaintop. Zoroaster received the tablets of law from Ahura Mazda on a mountaintop."

Doane sums it up when he says, "Almost all the acts of Moses correspond to those of the Sun-gods." However, the Moses story is also reflective of the stellar cult, once again demonstrating the dual natured "twin" Horus-Set myth and the battle for supremacy between the day and night skies, as well as among the solar, stellar and lunar cults. . . . [end excerpt]

As has been demonstrated, the Moses fable is an ancient mythological motif found in numerous cultures. It therefore has nothing to do with any particular ethnic group, and the character Moses is not the founder of the Jewish ideology. Like so many others, this story as presented represents racist rubbish and cultural bigotry.

.... They actually did represent the Bible in a manner that was truthful to their interpretation. There is no standard truth of scripture. Interpretations can fit whatever any theologian leader decides to make it.
Pick an issue, hell, salvation, trinity, then look at. the Wiki page. Endless versions of interpretations, hundreds of denominations.
(Whatever...still no proof)
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Miracles are not hard to understand. They occur (the same mundane miracles) in all holy books in all religions. They are fictional stories and can be found in every ancient culture.
They are not contested any more than Greek stories about a Trojan Horse being snuck into a fort. It's known fiction.
You again failed to respond to anything in the post and are just rambling.





Then you don't care about what is true. Ok. No one has to care.




There is no evidence for any God outside of myths written by people. There is even less evidence of people being raised from the dead. There is however evidence that during the Hellenistic period, most religions who had a national God who lived in heaven (like Yahweh), was upgraded to supreme God and resurrecting savior demigods were appearing in all these religions, coming to life in 3 days and getting followers into this new afterlife (prior to this the afterlife was not in religions, it started primarily with Hellenenism). Notice in Judaism Heaven was only for God and only one human escaped death by being brought to heaven. Souls that go to heaven were a Greek idea (the Greeks occupied Israel for a few centuries before Christianity). Your beliefs come from them.
Here is something I found from Britannica, under the subject of Moses. "According to the biblical account, Moses’ parents were from the tribe of Levi, one of the groups in Egypt called Hebrews. Originally the term Hebrew had nothing to do with race or ethnic origin. It derived from Habiru, a variant spelling of Ḫapiru (Apiru), a designation of a class of people who made their living by hiring themselves out for various services." While you and I differ on certain vital issues, I'd be interested in asking about this from a believing Jewish perspective as to the historicity of this point as well as whether their commentaries say it's a made=up idea or myth. But thanks anyway.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I may be wrong, but I do not see how any of those sentences matter to what I said.
Allow me to explain if possible. Einstein saw light. We see light. We see darkness, too. Obviously. Do we really know how it got here? :)
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Allow me to explain if possible. Einstein saw light. We see light. We see darkness, too. Obviously. Do we really know how it got here? :)
No. Also, ending with a question is not an explanation for what you intend to convey.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Here is something I found from Britannica, under the subject of Moses. "According to the biblical account, Moses’ parents were from the tribe of Levi, one of the groups in Egypt called Hebrews. Originally the term Hebrew had nothing to do with race or ethnic origin. It derived from Habiru, a variant spelling of Ḫapiru (Apiru), a designation of a class of people who made their living by hiring themselves out for various services." While you and I differ on certain vital issues, I'd be interested in asking about this from a believing Jewish perspective as to the historicity of this point as well as whether their commentaries say it's a made=up idea or myth. But thanks anyway.

Ideas like that seem to stem from the idea that the Bible story is wrong and so those who hold this idea look for another origin of the Jews.
Apiru sort of sounds like Hebrew so that is good enough.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
An open mind means that one is open to new evidence which might potentially falsify currently held beliefs.

When one simply states in advance that "there is nothing you can say or show to convince me", then that is pretty much being closed minded by definition.

I think YoursTrue was saying that you have no evidence that what you say is true. It is like what sceptics and atheists say of theists.
The evidence wanted is what this sentence on your posts suggests.
"Reality is not what you perceive it to be. Instead, it's what the tools and methods of science reveal." ~Neil DeGrass Tyson
But that ignores the evidence that science cannot use and that ignoring of evidence leads to the naturalistic methodology,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as if all other evidence has to be wrong simply because science cannot use it.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
As fiction the Bible contains some metaphors that have wisdom. That is proven. The myths themselves are all re-workings of older cultures myths. The supernatural happenings are not proven. Not one single iota of proof. Archaeology shows that the historical narrative is wrong. Israelites did not come from Egypt but from Canaan. There was no armed conflict. Exodus is a national foundation myth written around the time the Hebrew kings were returning to Judea when the Persian kings decided to let them return. King Solomons kingdom was much more modest than written. Judea was a small hill town. This goes on and on. The Gods and beings in the story are as fiction as the Gods in Greek myths.
Why you would mention Einstein leading up to a mention of the Bible is bizarre? The secret is out? It isn't history.

I take it that you think the other archaeology which puts Israel in Egypt when and where the Bible says and that has the archaeology of the conquest as correct is not true.

But who are you talking to? Yourself? A guardian angel? You did not answer any points? I demonstrated Genesis is a re-working of Mesopotamian myths, Noah is taken from Gilamesh and modern historians have the benefit of seeing all this literature now so we can see that this is religious syncretism in action.
Your response is to compare a physicist (who relies on proofs) and make some vague statement? Yes so much is proven. It's proven that the legends in the OT are re-used myths?

There is nothing proven there, that is just a belief that the naturalistic methodology of anthropology and history is philosophically true.

"The legend of Moses, rather than being that of a historical Hebrew character, is found from the Mediterranean to India, with the character having different names and races, depending on the locale: "Manou" is the Indian legislator. "Nemo the lawgiver," who brought down the tablets from the Mountain of God, hails from Babylon. "Mises" is found in Syria, where he was pulled out of a basket floating in a river. Mises also had tablets of stone upon which laws were written and a rod with which he did miracles, including parting waters and leading his army across the sea. In addition, "Manes the lawgiver" took the stage in Egypt, and "Minos" was the Cretan reformer.
Jacolliot traces the original Moses to the Indian Manou: "This name of Manou, or Manes . . . is not a substantive, applying to an individual man; its Sanscrit signification is the man, par excellence, the legislator. It is a title aspired to by all the leaders of men in antiquity."
Like Moses, Krishna was placed by his mother in a reed boat and set adrift in a river to be discovered by another woman. The Akkadian Sargon also was placed in a reed basket and set adrift to save his life. In fact, "The name Moses is Egyptian and comes from mo, the Egyptian word for water, and uses, meaning saved from water, in this case, primordial." Thus, this title Moses could be applied to any of these various heroes saved from the water.

Walker elaborates on the Moses myth:

"The Moses tale was originally that of an Egyptian hero, Ra-Harakhti, the reborn sun god of Canopus, whose life story was copied by biblical scholars. The same story was told of the sun hero fathered by Apollo on the virgin Creusa; of Sargon, king of Akkad in 2242 B.C.; and of the mythological twin founders of Rome, among many other baby heroes set adrift in rush baskets. It was a common theme."

Furthermore, Moses's rod is a magical, astrology stick used by a number of other mythical characters. Of Moses's miraculous exploits, Walker also relates:

"Moses's flowering rod, river of blood, and tablets of the law were all symbols of the ancient Goddess. His miracle of drawing water from a rock was first performed by Mother Rhea after she gave birth to Zeus, and by Atalanta with the help of Artemis. His miracle of drying up the waters to travel dry-shod was earlier performed by Isis, or Hathor, on her way to Byblos."

And Higgins states:

"In Bacchus we evidently have Moses. Herodotus says [Bacchus] was an Egyptian . . . The Orphic verses relate that he was preserved from the waters, in a little box or chest, that he was called Misem in commemoration of the event; that he was instructed in all the secrets of the Gods; and that he had a rod, which he changed into a serpent at his pleasure; that he passed through the Red Sea dry-shod, as Hercules subsequently did . . . and that when he went to India, he and his army enjoyed the light of the Sun during the night: moreover, it is said, that he touched with his magic rod the waters of the great rivers Orontes and Hydaspes; upon which those waters flowed back and left him a free passage. It is even said that he arrested the course of the sun and moon. He wrote his laws on two tablets of stone. He was anciently represented with horns or rays on his head."
In addition, the miraculous "parting of the Red Sea" has forever mystified the naive and credulous masses and scholars alike, who have put forth all sorts of tortured speculation to explain it. The parting and destruction of the hosts of Pharaoh at the Red Sea is not recorded by any known historian, which is understandable, since it is, of course, not historical and is found in other cultures, including in Ceylon, out of which the conquering shepherd kings (Pharaohs) were driven across "Adam's Bridge" and drowned. This motif is also found in the Hawaiian and Hottentot versions of the Moses myth, prior to contact with outside cultures. The crossing of the Red Sea is astronomical, expressly stated by Josephus to have occurred at the autumnal equinox, indicating its origin within the mythos.

Moreover, the famed Ten Commandments are simply a repetition of the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi and the Hindu Vedas, among others. As Churchward says:

"The 'Law of Moses' were the old Egyptian Laws . . . ; this the stele or 'Code of Hammurabi' conclusively proves. Moses lived 1,000 years after this stone was engraved."

Walker relates that the "stone tablets of law supposedly given to Moses were copied from the Canaanite god Baal-Berith, 'God of the Covenant.' Their Ten Commandments were similar to the commandments of the Buddhist Decalogue. In the ancient world, laws generally came from a deity on a mountaintop. Zoroaster received the tablets of law from Ahura Mazda on a mountaintop."

Doane sums it up when he says, "Almost all the acts of Moses correspond to those of the Sun-gods." However, the Moses story is also reflective of the stellar cult, once again demonstrating the dual natured "twin" Horus-Set myth and the battle for supremacy between the day and night skies, as well as among the solar, stellar and lunar cults. . . . [end excerpt]

As has been demonstrated, the Moses fable is an ancient mythological motif found in numerous cultures. It therefore has nothing to do with any particular ethnic group, and the character Moses is not the founder of the Jewish ideology. Like so many others, this story as presented represents racist rubbish and cultural bigotry.

The Christ Conspiracy

I found the above link about one of Murdock's books but could not find one debunking her Moses was a myth book. However I have no doubt that what she says in there is exaggerations made to look true by crafty thinking and writing and the willingness of people to believe such things, as is the case with the book about Jesus.
People lap up anti Biblical rhetoric even if the thinking and facts in such works is not very good at times.

They actually did represent the Bible in a manner that was truthful to their interpretation. There is no standard truth of scripture. Interpretations can fit whatever any theologian leader decides to make it.
Pick an issue, hell, salvation, trinity, then look at. the Wiki page. Endless versions of interpretations, hundreds of denominations.

I would say there are maybe a few ways to go with some things and it is just which combination that is chosen which makes for the variety. If someone is going to choose a certain direction on one of the issues then they are probably more likely to be a certain sort of person and probably go with a similar combination as someone else who chose the same direction on that issue.
Overall there may not be as big a variety of beliefs as we might think when they can probably be grouped like that into similar types of denominations.
 
Last edited:

Brian2

Veteran Member
No, I don't. And I explained why. You didn't respond to that.

If it's so obvious, it should be really easy to give evidence for it. The fact that you haven't, and just keep claiming that it's so obvious, doesn't bode well for your argument.

I must have missed that. I thought it is because you don't think anyone should believe things that lack evidence.

We can observe spiders building webs. We can observe bees interacting with other bees. We can measure DNA. Demonstrations of such things doesn't rely on personal/subject experiences that can't be verified by anyone else. Quite the opposite.
Show me anything close to that for the claims you're making.

Are you saying that because spiders and bees can be seen doing what they do therefore what they do is not evidence of a designer?
I suppose you think the same for the existence of DNA. It can be studied, therefore God had nothing to do with it.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
What evidence?
Simply stating something is "obvious" isn't evidence.

I think I was referring to the Biblical evidence

Why should science accept the words in old books, without verification? That's not science at all. Should science just accept every supernatural claim made by anybody then?
Should we all just accept that everything in the Quran is true too, because Muslims might say so? See the problem here?

Of course I see the problem and the reason that science (as a discipline) does not accept any one of these various writings.
The thing is that the reason that science does not use any evidence like this is not reason that individuals cannot use it for their particular view of the world.
"Science" cannot say one way or the other about the existence of God and there is reason for that.
However sceptics seem to love this idea that science cannot use holy books as evidence and so they have done the same thing and condemn themselves to a life of not knowing or believing in the existence of God.

Demonstrate that the supernatural is testable or measurable in some way, and it will be considered. There's no reason to consider it without evidence.
Do you believe in Thor? Why not? There are descriptions written of him in old books?

Just as I said. And even when I say that the supernatural in the Bible is testable in the prophecies there is always reason to say the prophecies are wrong or not acceptable.

That is not circular reasoning. I called you out on the before and now you're just going to repeat it?
How is it circular reasoning to not accept things that are not in evidence?

There is more and more evidence being gathered all the times and it seems to be suppressed by people who do not want the Bible to be seen as true.
But of course lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.
If you keep up with new discoveries in archaeology it should be clear that the historicity of the Bible is being shown to be true but just not accepted by most scholars. So a majority vote is the determining factor.
However when I spoke of circular reasoning I was referring to the naturalistic methodology in history and anthropology which end up relegating the writing of the Bible to a long time after the books and other history suggests and then the late dates of authorship are used to show that the supernatural (prophecies) are not real.

We can analyze earlier religions and verify that information has been copied and plagiarized from them. That's how we figure that out.

No that is not verification, that is just presuming that Bible authors plagiarised and ignoring the idea that both the earlier and later authors knew of the same events (eg the flood).
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
My response was regarding this comment that you had made:

"It's nice to know something about evolution but that says nothing about the origins of man unless you presume that life comes from chemicals and chemicals just happened etc."

To which I pointed out that life is composed of chemicals. Our bodies are made up of chemicals and chemical reactions drive our body's actions. That's not to say that "life is just chemicals," whatever you mean by that.

By that I meant that a naturalistic origin of life cannot be presumed to be actually true even if the naturalistic methodology is used in science and so with the ongoing work of science there will always be the presumption of a naturalistic origin and conclusions will no doubt be naturalistic even though those conclusion might be completely wrong.

Where is the evidence for the supernatural?
Maybe the fact that I have to keep asking for it and never receive it has something to do with my not accepting it as factually existing. Hmmm
On the other hand, when scientists make claims about stuff, they can back it up with evidence that can be verified by people other than just themselves.

We can all verify that the Bible shows fulfilled prophecies if we are of a mind not to want to call the Bible a conspiracy of lies.
We can all verify that our DNA is a marvel of engineering and chemistry (chemical engineering) and that how it became a control centre for our body is not know.
We can all verify that spiders and bees know things that are amazing for those little critters.
We can say that science will find answers (which won't be verifiable answers) and we can say that these things show design in nature and a designer.
Either way it seems to be a type of religious faith and not science.
And yes I know that the whole thing is based on incredulity that nature could do these things all by itself,,,,,,,,,,,but the whole idea of scepticism is also an argument from incredulity that a supernatural being did it.
Actually to me occam's razor should cut out the naturalistic answers.
But that is a matter of opinion and who in science will say that when a God has not been demonstrated to exist?
 
Top