Picture of Mars vs. the earth. So how did Moses know?

[YoursTrue]

It does seem to have come about. Out of what? Science does not have the answer. It will be decades or centuries before we know that. But there is no reason that I could say "God brought it out of his hat".

It's either/or. I choose God. You choose chance. There's too much "evidence" of a rather highly intelligent mind. (Beyond human understanding...) Bye for now.

 

[YoursTrue]

It does seem to have come about. Out of what? Science does not have the answer. It will be decades or centuries before we know that. But there is no reason that I could say "God brought it out of his hat".

By the way, latest I hear is that science doesn't "have the answer" for the Unknown Common Ancestor between bonobos, chimpanzees, gorillas and humans of the socalled ape family. And from what I also hear, it's said by one science writer that they may never know. Hmm, may never know. That's assuming, of course, mankind doesn't knock itself out totally.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It does seem to have come about, right? So sorry, but the human mind does not fathom. (Have a nice day.)

I said "IT SEEMS", and not that it "HAS" come about. It is an image that our mind creates. What we perceive is not a truth. It is temporary, it is an illusion, maya (anicca, anatta of Buddhism). We do not know how and why did it happen.

 

[YoursTrue]

It does seem to have come about. Out of what? Science does not have the answer. It will be decades or centuries before we know that. But there is no reason that I could say "God brought it out of his hat".

Here's another statement. From a commentary on "alien life." Here's what it says,"Extraterrestrial habitability is complex, but there are a few basic ingredients you absolutely need to host lifel" So is water necessary do you think for life to exist for non-earth, non-humans, "alien life"? (I'll bet that extraterrestrial habitability is complex...) Maybe non-extraterrestrial habitability is complex, too.
The Most Habitable Alien Planets Might Be 'Super-Earths' (msn.com)
(Yeah -- the "most habitable...")

 

[YoursTrue]

I said "IT SEEMS", and not that it "HAS" come about. It is an image that our mind creates. What we perceive is not a truth. It is temporary, it is an illusion, maya (anicca, anatta of Buddhism). We do not know how and why did it happen.

Again -- looking at the sky, the vast expanse of the universe, tells me something obviously different than what it tells you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It's either/or. I choose God. You choose chance. There's too much "evidence" of a rather highly intelligent mind. (Beyond human understanding...) Bye for now.

What evidence?

 

[SkepticThinker]

By the way, latest I hear is that science doesn't "have the answer" for the Unknown Common Ancestor between bonobos, chimpanzees, gorillas and humans of the socalled ape family. And from what I also hear, it's said by one science writer that they may never know. Hmm, may never know. That's assuming, of course, mankind doesn't knock itself out totally.

Who is the last common ancestor between you and your great-great-great-great-great-great-grandmother?
Oh, you don't know? Well then she must not have existed and you're not related to her. Sounds silly when you put it like that, doesn't it?

 

[Aupmanyav]

It's either/or. I choose God. You choose chance. There's too much "evidence" of a rather highly intelligent mind. (Beyond human understanding...) Bye for now.

'Either' has some proof, 'Or' has none. 'Beyond human understanding', but your claims cover everything, as if you are the 'co-designer'.

Maybe non-extraterrestrial habitability is complex, too.

Yeah, carbon-based life is more probable than silicon-based life. It is OK to do any kind of research. However, we are not going to other habitable planets and no Aliens are going to come here. They are far too distant.

Again -- looking at the sky, the vast expanse of the universe, tells me something obviously different than what it tells you.

Yeah, that is true. We have differing views.

 

[Aupmanyav]

By the way, latest I hear is that science doesn't "have the answer" for the Unknown Common Ancestor between bonobos, chimpanzees, gorillas and humans of the so-called ape family. And from what I also hear, it's said by one science writer that they may never know. Hmm, may never know. That's assuming, of course, mankind doesn't knock itself out totally.

We know a whole range of common ancestors for primates. You too are an ancestor of your line, if you have children. Who is the science writer and what are his qualifications? Is he from the "Intelligent Creation" group? Well, knock out is going to happen one time or the other. Dying off of species is nothing surprising.

 

[YoursTrue]

We know a whole range of common ancestors for primates. You too are an ancestor of your line, if you have children. Who is the science writer and what are his qualifications? Is he from the "Intelligent Creation" group? Well, knock out is going to happen one time or the other. Dying off of species is nothing surprising.

At this point, your argument is bordering on the ridiculous. Anyway have a good day.

 

[YoursTrue]

'Either' has some proof, 'Or' has none. 'Beyond human understanding', but your claims cover everything, as if you are the 'co-designer'.Yeah, carbon-based life is more probable than silicon-based life. It is OK to do any kind of research. However, we are not going to other habitable planets and no Aliens are going to come here. They are far too distant.
Yeah, that is true. We have differing views.

We sure do. You see the universe as a result of chance something-or-other and I see it differently. Have a nice day.

 

[joelr]

OK, they say water had been on Mars. But the photo of Mars I saw in a journal really showed that the words used to describe the scene might be barren, waste or void. Rocks and lots of them. So the question is -- how do you think Moses knew the earth, at the beginning, was "waste and void;"? (American Standard Version, Genesis 1:2) You think he figured it out that it might have looked that way, although he saw greenery, and animals? I'm also figuring that he couldn't see much on Mars at that point. So how did Moses know the earth's surface was just plain not filled with life as he saw it? Just general reasoning? Of course, the Bible does say that star differs from star...and we know that planets themselves differ from each other.. but so far no one has discovered a planet like the earth as it is now, not conjecture, with trees and animals.

Because whoever was writing Genesis was using older legends to write their own creation story. That type of imagery was common. Genesis is similar to the 2 Mesopotamian creation stories and the flood story is similar to Noah.

One Greek creation myth starts out with - "He begins with Chaos, a yawning nothingness. Out of the void emerged Gaia (the Earth) a..."

waste and void. Very common in creation narratives.

"The Genesis creation narrative is the creation myth[a] of both Judaism and Christianity....It expounds themes parallel to those in Mesopotamian mythology, emphasizing the Israelite people's belief in one God...Comparative mythology provides historical and cross-cultural perspectives for Jewish mythology. Both sources behind the Genesis creation narrative borrowed themes from Mesopotamian mythology
Genesis 1–11 as a whole is imbued with Mesopotamian myths.
The Enuma Elish has also left traces on Genesis 2.
Genesis creation narrative - Wikipedia

Genesis is written down around the 7-5th century:

"
Religion Identity and the Origins of Ancient Israel.

KL Sparks, PhD Hebrew Bible, Baptist Pastor,

As a rule, modern scholars do not believe that the Bible’s account of early Israel’s history provides a wholly accurate portrait of Israels origins. One reason for this is that the earliest part of Israel’s history in Genesis is now regarded as something other than a work of modern history. It’s primary author was at best an ancient historian (if a historian at all) who lived long after the events he narrated, and who drew freely from sources that were not historical (legends and theological stories), he was more concerned with theology than with the modern quest to learn “what actually happened” (Van Seters 1992; Sparks 2002 pp. 37-71)

"

 

[joelr]

We sure do. You see the universe as a result of chance something-or-other and I see it differently. Have a nice day.

Actually we already know a great deal about this. The universe works on probabilities. The most probable tends to happen and less probable happens less. But it still can happen. Quantum mechanics backs this up and we see it in every aspect of reality.
If 100 people get an illness with a 30% mortality rate it doesn't matter how many people pray for certain people, we will see ~30% succumb. It it's 90% then generally 9 out of 10 will die. The remaining person of course will believe God saved them because "it wasn't my time" . We know humans suffer from "over-agency", giving personification to random things. This is a biological trait.
People with illness are doing the most praying and having many people pray for them. Yet the statistics always play out.
The same amount of people die in traffic accidents that are yearly averages. No deity saves them. Until some traffic safety measure is added that has actual value, then we see a change. This will give a new statistic which again will always be followed. 10 million children under 7 die every year. This never changes. When something significant is added to the equation like a new medicine that helps a common child disease this will change. But we are clearly at the mercy of probability. In daily life we don't see this and can pretend deities answer prayers. But look at the overall picture and you see it's within the probabilities.
Life starting has a low probability on one planet. Luckily there seem to be trillions of planets and trillions of days for this to happen.
If there are many universes, quadrillions or more, it's almost certain one will have properties for life to form, but would still be fairly dangerous.
That describes our universe exactly. We could be wiped out any year by an asteroid, pandemic, supervolcano or other disasters.

 

[Brian2]

There is no design. Matter interacts. But its action cannot be compared to human consciousness. Nothing is dead / inert in the universe, it is a very dynamic universe.

That doesn't answer the question. Forget about the design bit if you want and just answer the question.
"Have you any evidence that the universe with the "obvious" design and conscious matter, just happened or is that something that you got from intuition?"
It sounds like you guess that the universe has life in it and is alive.
Is this life concentrated in some places more than others and so humans and other animals are conscious and chemicals are just alive but only conscious in a more limited way.

 

[Brian2]

I have corrected my post. The understatement is not of an order of a hundred thousand but of the order of a thousand thousands (i.e., a million). Huuuuuuuuuuuge.

You are not understanding what I posted.

 

[Brian2]

Obvious design? For whom? Certainly not humans who can only inhabit some areas of one tiny planet in one tiny little section of that universe. Maybe it was designed for someone/thing else?

Are you saying that you guess it just happened?

 

[Brian2]

Because whoever was writing Genesis was using older legends to write their own creation story. That type of imagery was common. Genesis is similar to the 2 Mesopotamian creation stories and the flood story is similar to Noah.


"The Genesis creation narrative is the creation myth[a] of both Judaism and Christianity....It expounds themes parallel to those in Mesopotamian mythology, emphasizing the Israelite people's belief in one God...Comparative mythology provides historical and cross-cultural perspectives for Jewish mythology. Both sources behind the Genesis creation narrative borrowed themes from Mesopotamian mythology
Genesis 1–11 as a whole is imbued with Mesopotamian myths.
The Enuma Elish has also left traces on Genesis 2.
Genesis creation narrative - Wikipedia

Genesis is written down around the 7-5th century:

So you are guessing that the flood "myths" were not true and that the creation story is not what God told Moses.

As a rule, modern scholars do not believe that the Bible’s account of early Israel’s history provides a wholly accurate portrait of Israels origins. One reason for this is that the earliest part of Israel’s history in Genesis is now regarded as something other than a work of modern history. It’s primary author was at best an ancient historian (if a historian at all) who lived long after the events he narrated, and who drew freely from sources that were not historical (legends and theological stories), he was more concerned with theology than with the modern quest to learn “what actually happened” (Van Seters 1992; Sparks 2002 pp. 37-71)
"

You seem to be guessing about the motives of the writers who compiled one flowing story from many documents.
Do you just agree with modern historians because they are modern or do you think they know something that the earlier historians did not know.

 

[night912]

So? How did Moses know that the earth was uninhabited by -- HUMANS AND animals AND fish "early on"? Did he figure that out? And yes, you're right that no man has landed on Mars-- but here's a picture of the surface of Mars, there are many. It doesn't look too hospitable for -- HUMANS and animals and vegetation. Does it? Empty -- void -- desolate -- waste --

Genesis is an origin story, how the world came to be as it currently is. If the story started with, "In the beginning there was the world," then it would defeat the purpose of being an origin story.

Don't down play the knowledge of ancient people in order make your cherry picked prophets appear to be special and possessed knowledge beyond humanity of that era. Ancient people may have been ignorant of the physics in the universe compared to us today, but that doesn't mean they're stupid and are incapable of rationalizing what they can observe. When new land is acquired, one needs to plant new food into the ground and have some sort of water source to water the plants before any harvesting can be done. There's no livestock in the fields until you introduce yours into those fields.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Have you any evidence that the universe with the "obvious" design and conscious matter, just happened or is that something that you got from intuition?"
It sounds like you guess that the universe has life in it and is alive.

I am not an "intelligent design" person. Strange, that you ask me this question. You should answer that. Universe is "alive" in its own way, like sodium is when put in water, reaction happens. Do you mean that this is consciousness? Of water and sodium! Other things also happen in this way. As for why it happens and from where these forces have arisen, science does not have a fool-proof theory, though they have made great advance in the last 200 years. But the answer still lies in future. But why do you worry? You have the God of Gaps - and the mantra "Goddidit".

 

[Aupmanyav]

You are not understanding what I posted.

I understand you perfectly well, as I understand all theists. After all, I too was a vacillating atheist for half my life (i.e., 40 years) before I rejected the idea. I was correcting my own mistake where I mentioned that your statement under stated the period by a hundred thousand. It is actually a million times less.