As a professor in one of my psychology courses once told us, "Intelligence is what intelligence tests measure." Go figure.
That is neither original, nor in reference to intelligence in general, but IQ. Not the same thing.
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Plant intelligence
- Thread starter Jain
- Start date
That is neither original, nor in reference to intelligence in general, but IQ. Not the same thing.
They aren't. There is no central intelligence. The "queen" terminology usually has much more to do with reproduction than anything else. The example I used recently elsewhere concerned army ants. Nigel Franks, in his paper "Army Ants: A collective intelligence", writes "Even in quite large numbers army ants may demonstrate behavior that is essentially aberrant. For example, if 100 army ants are placed on a flat surface, they will walk around in never decreasing circles until they die of exhaustion. In extremely high numbers, however, it is a different story. A colony of 500,000 Eciton army ants can form a nest of their own bodies that will regulate temperature accurately within limits of plus or minus 10 C. In a single day, the colony can raid 200 m through the dim depths of the tropical rain forest, all the while maintaining a steady compass bearing. The ants can form super-efficient teams for the purpose of transporting large items of prey."
The size of the colony, not the existence of the queen, is what enables the qualitative transition from a bunch of mindless ants wandering aruond until they simply die to a collective intelligence.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
So the ability to answer an arbitrary set of questions. Seems rather unfair not only to species outside of Homo sapiens but to those within the species that can't read.As a professor in one of my psychology courses once told us, "Intelligence is what intelligence tests measure." Go figure.
wa:do
Skwim
Veteran Member
Of course it was a somewhat flip remark, so don't take it too seriously, but do you really think the questions on an IQ test are arbitrary? If you do, please be advised that they're not.
Tests like an IQ test are not arbitrary, but that doesn't make them adequate measures of human intelligence. But this is irrelevant. They are not designed either to define intelligence or as measures of intelligence period. They are designed to quantify human intelligence.
Within psychology and every other relevant field, intelligence concerns the ability to "learn". Learning, in turn, concerns the ability to react adaptively to one's environment and retain information (memory). There are levels of intelligence, different types of learning and memory systems, and these are dealt with in different ways in the literature (especially between two different disciplines). However, psychology, cognitive science, artificial intelligence studies, and so forth, all include the mechanisms through which "simple" organisms, "hives", and plants "learn" as a form of intelligence. Again, if one wishes to base the term on empirically solid grounds, than excluding systems capable of learning in some fashion is out.
mycorrhiza
Well-Known Member
Here's a documentary that kinda deals with the subject, well, at least with the complexity of plants.
[youtube]DLJDJOaTfWI[/youtube]
[youtube]DLJDJOaTfWI[/youtube]
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-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
I can think of a few people which confirm the existence of "plant intelligence" :danana::biglaugh:
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
It was, of course a somewhat flip response as well...
They have improved since they were instituted... but they are still flawed and often carry ethnocentric and economic bias. These biases are accepted as an issue of concern by the industry.
wa:do
Jain
Member
Certainly. Plants move toward sunlight and many would regard this as a simple chemical response to stimuli. Often men turn their heads when they see a pretty woman walk by. Some consistently turn their heads even if holding the hand of their girlfriend or wife. I saw one guy's head almost fall off craning his neck so hard. :biglaugh:
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
So, how do you define conscious?
And I actually said that plants are more "intelligent" than people realize and that limiting intelligence to things with brains and animal anatomy was an error.
wa:do
outhouse
Atheistically
something that has the ability to think, a function unique to the brain.
tha ability to make a desicion, or choice based on something other then a physical aspect.
I dont buy it.
define intelligence
because plants lack it. [many humans do lol] having bred a close to 50 anenome's in the last 15 years, and relating them to that of a plant, in this context.
it is nothing more then a physical responce thay dictates ever aspect of their nature. there is no choice making involved.
intelligence, the ability to make a wise decision. plants do not have this ability.
Jain
Member
Watch the videos that are linked in the beginning posts of this thread and see if you still disagree with the intelligent scientists in those videos.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Slime molds can solve mazes and remember past threats.
They are single celled organisms that can think.
Then none of us qualify.
Anemonies are more complex than your fish tank would have you believe. They make decisions (fight or flight) and even have "personalities".
Sure they make decisions all the time... especially those that have the option of calling in insects for help vs. using chemical deterrents.
The plant has to identify the source of the threat and then based on that decide what strategy to use in repelling it.
I'll say it again... plants are more complex than you realize.
wa:do
All organisms are the same, nothing more than responses. Our awareness and intelligence is an illusion of something we don't really have. The one thing organisms have in common is they are individual even though they are very much determined by cause and effect.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
So only some of us qualify...Only organisms that can take written tests qualify.
My son is not yet intelligent. Poor dear. :cover:
wa:do
There has to be intelligence if you have the ability to learn which many single celled organisms can do even being less complex than plants.
outhouse
Atheistically
outhouse
Atheistically
again defining intelligence is the key here, and how low we are willing to let those standards drop
a man comes at a tree with a chainsaw, it does not know he is there because, simply. it lacks intelligence.
what it can do based on physical stimuli only within its own organism for defense or what you call communication, is all based on physical smbiosis .
Plants do live, but intlligence is only percieved
a man comes at a tree with a chainsaw, it does not know he is there because, simply. it lacks intelligence.
what it can do based on physical stimuli only within its own organism for defense or what you call communication, is all based on physical smbiosis .
Plants do live, but intlligence is only percieved