https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGLABm7jJ-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApZ59MSty4o
"Where's your moral high ground now, vegetarians?" xD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApZ59MSty4o
"Where's your moral high ground now, vegetarians?" xD
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Plants and Vegetarianism
- Thread starter EyeofOdin
- Start date
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
They have none. Whether you eat meat or veggies, you are always taking life when you eat.
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
So, how long have you been a fruitarian?
Sees
Dragonslayer
I don't have a problem with killing and eating animals, but do have problems with the industrial methods, health factor of eating as much meat as most do, etc. I would rather kill plants than animals most times - similar to how I would rather kill my distant neighbor than a family member or close friend.
Ridiculous.
We eschew meat because we abhor suffering, and suffering presupposes consciousness, self awareness.
These links describe plant responses to environmental stimuli, but falsely draws analogies to mammalian responses. The responses described don't translate to self-awareness, consciousness, or the ability to suffer in the way a creature with a nervous system might suffer.
We eschew meat because we abhor suffering, and suffering presupposes consciousness, self awareness.
These links describe plant responses to environmental stimuli, but falsely draws analogies to mammalian responses. The responses described don't translate to self-awareness, consciousness, or the ability to suffer in the way a creature with a nervous system might suffer.
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Pretty much agree with Seyorni.
How do you know that the plant doesn't suffer? It has external reactions to what would be suffering to an animal, and vigorously defends itself at times.
Just because they operate differently, or have a different way to function with their surroundings, doesn't mean that they don't feel pain.
I'm not. We get hungry. We kill things, then we eat them. This is simply how the world works, and I didn't make up how the world works, and if I did I would've made it very differently.
It doesn't matter if it's a carrot or a chicken, some of us have just come up with a vertebrate bias to convince ourselves that we're not doing harm.
1). The neural mechanisms that mediate suffering in animals are lacking in plants.
2). Suffering implies consciousness and self-awareness. What evidence do we have for these in plants? Plants lack the neural mechanisms believed to support consciousness in animals.
3).Robots can be built that will sense and respond to environmental cues, and defend themselves, but no-one believes they're conscious.
4). Nature is thrifty. She doesn't waste energy on useless features. Birds in rich, predator-free environs lose flight. Animals in dark caves lose sight. Sessile organisms have no need for the complex, high-speed, conscious reactions of animals, so would likely not waste energy developing them.
Would feeling pain benefit them?
Organisms are unlikely to develop useless features.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
What is consciousness?
Yeah it is pretty silly
You can force plants to grow in groups on a farm and harvest by force in the prime of their life collect their offspring and force their offspring to do the same forever or until the farm makes no money. Then you kill all growth and turn it into a mall or housing complex.
Some how this is more humane than live stock. For me life is life.
Skwim
Veteran Member
How about animals that are killed without inflicting suffering, as with stunning methods?
That would be theft. I'm not a fan of that, either.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
And pulling a living plant out of the ground isn't theft?
Skwim
Veteran Member
Theft implies ownership, so theft of whom? And if you reply with some sort of notion that an animal owns its own life, then you're simply playing fast and loose with the meaning of "own," which is next to ludicrous and begs rejection.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It revolves around our empathy and ability to feel pain. Arguably humans largely are the more humane predator. Try watching the Kruger vids or the babbon ripping apart an antelope while it's in agonizing pain.
Humans are inclined to eat meat by killing other animals as well just as the fact something will assuredly kill us individual humans as well, quick or slow and agonizing and consequently be consumed by other life.
Do your part. Take a moral high ground with the understanding it changes nothing at all.
You will still kill and cause suffering and death no matter what you choose to eat. Animal or vegetable.
Do your part in minimizing suffering and pain, it's beneficial, but also get over it in the relentless manner nature takes.
Humans are inclined to eat meat by killing other animals as well just as the fact something will assuredly kill us individual humans as well, quick or slow and agonizing and consequently be consumed by other life.
Do your part. Take a moral high ground with the understanding it changes nothing at all.
You will still kill and cause suffering and death no matter what you choose to eat. Animal or vegetable.
Do your part in minimizing suffering and pain, it's beneficial, but also get over it in the relentless manner nature takes.
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
Ah! the old "vegans 'kill' carrots therefore I can kill cows with a clear conscience" argument.
Using that logic one could justify eating human flesh!
Not quite the same is it.
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
Yes, but I'm often on here and elsewhere saying 'animals have souls', 'are on their own evolutionary path', 'feel pain', 'suffer' etc. If I was then to turn round and say "Right, well. if you'll excuse me I'm just off for a Big Mac" you wouldn't think that a tad hypocritical?
I've encountered quite a few people who proclaimed 'plants feel pain', but I've yet to meet one who was prepared to put their soul where their mouth is and become fruitarain, or even reduce their plant intake. Indeed to a man they were still eating animals as well!
Raising awareness is good, if true, but if one isn't prepared to incorporate said beliefs into one's day-to-day life and live by them, how can one expect anyone else to?
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
What if someone wanted to kill one's loved ones 'without inflicting suffering'? Would that make it okay?
Life is dear to all.