Political Christian Morality

[Epic Beard Man]

“I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes. Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves. Consistent and fair application of the law is in itself a good and moral thing, and that protects the weak and protects the lawful." -Jeff Sessions

"I can say that it is very biblical to enforce the law. That is actually repeated a number of times throughout the Bible,” she said. “It’s a moral policy to follow and enforce the law.”-Sarah Huckabee Sanders

I implore @Sunstone @Faithofchristian and others to watch the following video starting @ 6:50 in relation to this thread, but if you want, I encourage you all to see the whole video especially from the part where you can hear the children crying.

I have to ask the Christians since, after all, many Christians state that this is a so-called Christian nation, at what point do you in light of your religious/spiritual beliefs go against the establishment in this case, laws that appear to be morally defunct?

 

[Sunstone]

A general observation before I watch the video. Call "Godwin" if you want, but Germany under the Nazis had "orderly and lawful processes". Those things in and of themselves mean little to whether or not the laws are moral, although due process does tend to create an equality of all under the law. Still, if the laws are bad, how much does it matter to you who is hanged before or after you?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

A general observation before I watch the video. Call "Godwin" if you want, but Germany under the Nazis had "orderly and lawful processes". Those things in and of themselves mean little to whether or not the laws are moral, although due process does tend to create an equality of all under the law. Still, if the laws are bad, how much does it matter to you who is hanged before or after you?

I tend to think laws are indicative of the social infrastructure and it challenges the notion of whether these laws under the guise of equity, are indeed and truly moral. I understand that laws themselves must be devoid of personal emotion due to the fear of the lack of impartiality, however, I find the basis of laws find their foundation on morality and ethics. So you ask how much does it matter to me who is hanged before or after me. I say, well, considering we are facing the same end the issue is not the hanging but why I'm in the predicament to begin with.

 

[sun rise]

There's a four-letter word that is utterly appropriate to use with this separation of children from their parents in such a cruel way and to excuse it by lying about it and justifying it by using the verse that slave owners used to justify slavery. That word is 'evil'.

Since the current regime took power in Washington, I kept thinking that the latest outrage was as bad as it could get. I've been wrong repeatedly. The creature in power in Washington and his minions have no depth that they won't descend to given time and power.

 

[sun rise]

I find the basis of laws find their foundation on morality and ethics.

This is not the law but the personal decisions of those in power aided and abetted by the majority in Congress who are either hiding in their closets out of fear or joining and justifying the evil acts of the current regime.

 

[Deeje]

I have to ask the Christians since, after all, many Christians state that this is a so-called Christian nation, at what point do you in light of your religious/spiritual beliefs go against the establishment in this case laws that appear morally defunct?

The apostle Paul's recommendation to obey our governmental authorities is relative.

When the disciples were told by the highest Jewish authorities to stop their preaching, (which was commanded by Jesus,) what was their response?

"We strictly ordered you not to keep teaching on the basis of this name, and yet look! you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” 29 In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men." (Acts 5:28-29)

Since there is no such thing as a "Christian" nation, it is impossible for any Christian to condone the mistreatment of children. If a government claims to be "Christian" and yet they fail to uphold the teachings of the Christ, then there is no "Christianity" being expressed in separating children from their parents to send a 'message' to them.

The parable of the "Good Samaritan" is an example of Jesus' compassionate teachings. The Samaritans were hated by Jews, but when this man saw another human being in need of help, he did not quibble about his nationality, but gave him practical and financial help to aid his recovery. Left stripped and naked, this man's nationality was not obvious. The Jews passing by ignored his plight, despite him being a "brother", but not the Samaritan.

Where is the Good Samaritan in the politics of any nation today? Perhaps this is why Jesus told us to be "no part of this world" and its governance. (John 18:36; 1 John 5:19) I really can't see very much "Christianity" being expressed in any nation's government....can you? Sadly, this is only one example.

 

[sun rise]

Church charges brought against Sessions – The United Methodist Church is a story about a formal church process initiated against Sessions. I'm glad to see that action being initiated.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Which returns us to the question; what does it mean to be christian?

 

[Estro Felino]

Clandestine immigration implies that rules should change...and I don't agree with this policy.

There is another moral problem. Immigration is not a right...if these people were really in trouble, they would avoid making children. Extreme poverty should force you to have other priorities.

In Europe there are countries with negative population growth and very low birth rates because only the rich can afford to make children.

I would like people to reflect upon rights and equality. An European woman who gives up motherhood out of poverty- and a Guatemalan mother who defies the laws of a country, putting her daughter in danger.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Clandestine immigration implies that rules should change...and I don't agree with this policy.

There is another moral problem. Immigration is not a right...if these people were really in trouble, they would avoid making children. Extreme poverty should force you to have other priorities.

In Europe there are countries with negative population growth and very low birth rates because only the rich can afford to make children.

That's all so ridiculous and untrue. Where on earth do you live?

 

[Jumi]

There comes a point in time where we can legitimately ask whether this type of Christianity is still Christianity or not. I can say with some assurance that most Christians or any other people find the things happening there disgusting. But the loud and obnoxious ones who scream "faith" are the spoilers of any religion they claim membership in. Even though I've my disagreements with "Christianity", my religion teacher in school(yes, we had years of mandatory religion classes because of our state religion) pointed out that Americans have their own type of Christianity and it ain't the same as "ours". Although this was decades ago now, I'm finding the insight more and more accurate as the days go by. One of the rare things she said that I can still agree with...

 

[Altfish]

Clandestine immigration implies that rules should change...and I don't agree with this policy.

There is another moral problem. Immigration is not a right...if these people were really in trouble, they would avoid making children. Extreme poverty should force you to have other priorities.

In Europe there are countries with negative population growth and very low birth rates because only the rich can afford to make children.

I would like people to reflect upon rights and equality. An European woman who gives up motherhood out of poverty- and a Guatemalan mother who defies the laws of a country, putting her daughter in danger.

Isn't the Exodus about immigration?

 

[Estro Felino]

Isn't the Exodus about immigration?

I don't believe in Biblical fables...but I do believe in this

Lucky Americans

 

[Altfish]

I don't believe in Biblical fables...but I do believe in this

Lucky Americans

As someone who lives in Europe, it is NOT a horrible mess. Trump doesn't know what he is talking about; that's the trouble when you get your news from Fox

 

[Shushersbedamned]

I don't believe in Biblical fables...but I do believe in this

Lucky Americans

Well if trump said.

After all, what do we know, us tiny meaningless europeans with our so called problems and integrity.

 

[Altfish]

Maybe he's talking about Italy and Greece...and not UK?

Well, I was in Greece (Athens) last year and it was fine; I was in Italy (Rome & Sorrento) the year before, that was fine too.
In both countries we walked the streets at night and felt safe.
The biggest problem in Rome is young pick-pockets on the metro - mainly gangs of approximately 10 to 12-year old girls - but they are Italian, not immigrants.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Maybe he's talking about Italy and Greece...and not UK?

Yes. Mayve he means a fraction of europe and not the whole europe..

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, I was in Greece (Athens) last year and it was fine; I was in Italy (Rome & Sorrento) the year before, that was fine too.
In both countries we walked the streets at night and felt safe.
The biggest problem in Rome is young pick-pockets on the metro - mainly gangs of approximately 10 to 12-year old girls - but they are Italian, not immigrants.

Those are gypsy girls, aka migrants.

By the way ...as for UK...no wonder people voted for brexit
Calais migrant crisis: Eurotunnel stopped overnight and ferries disrupted, in pics

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes. Mayve he means a fraction of europe and not the whole europe..

A middle-eastern raped a Finnish girl...
everything's rosy and fine

 

[Altfish]

Those are gypsy girls, aka migrants.

By the way ...as for UK...no wonder people voted for brexit
Calais migrant crisis: Eurotunnel stopped overnight and ferries disrupted, in pics

I don't know where you live but gypsys in the UK are predominantly British, I assumed the same in Italy.

Oh, I know why people voted for Brexit, it was papers like the Telegraph, Sun, Mail and Express ramping up stories about 'scary' migrants. The same migrants that we are starting to miss as we cannot man our health service and hotels in London are struggling for staff and fruit and other crops are going to waste because of a shortage of pickers.