Oh, I can control myself.
I have no interest whatsoever in dirty women.
So you believe that women who don't dress to your standards to be dirty? How very sad. Do i take that as a personal insult?
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Poll: Religious garb or religious garbage?
- Thread starter Mock Turtle
- Start date
So you believe that women who don't dress to your standards to be dirty? How very sad. Do i take that as a personal insult?
It seems to me that the problem is yours. Dirty? Wow,...
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
He's a convert from Christianity. Converts are frequently more zealous than those born to Islam because becoming Muslim is a choice they made.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Think what you like.
Think what you like.
I do. I have an understanding husband who lets me think for myself. So liberating
You consider around 70% of women to be dirty because they don't dress as you want. Whos problem is that.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Is that a statement or a question?
You don't know what I think, other than that I have no trouble in controlling myself, when it comes to sexual provocation of women.
Women who believe that hijab is important wear it without a law requiring it. These sorts of laws only serve to oppress (as do laws prohibiting hijab).
Is that a statement or a question?
You don't know what I think, other than that I have no trouble in controlling myself, when it comes to sexual provocation of women.
Right
But they must fully cover their bodies because you think they are dirty otherwise
I think the oppression issue is real, but on the other hand, there is a real matter of security to be addressed. The issue also as to such attire (burqa and niqab, for example) perhaps not being 'the voluntarily chosen' dress by those who do apparently choose such. Given, those in other countries are often not able to make such choices, and hence why might those with the same beliefs apparently make them by themselves rather than having others tell them to dress as such? This is the issue I tend to have with such dress - that we often cannot tell if such is imposed upon them by others - relatives or culture - and where some are essentially taking advantage of the freedoms offered in more liberal societies.
So, the unsolvable - intolerance being allowed by the tolerant.
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Sure, but:
- responding to someone's liberty being infringed by restricting their liberty further isn't a great strategy.
- if someone is being coerced into wearing a hijab by their family, the best way to help them be free to dress as they choose is to ensure that they have access to employment, education, social services, etc.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
Absolutely. But I'm talking about legally enforced rules. Once women are not beaten up in the street by so called "morality" police for the way they dress we can move on to other means of oppression. A women who is beaten by her husband can call on the law to protect her. The braver souls can protest publicly without fear of violence. Culture can change much more easily once the law is removed from the equation.
And the fact remains that there are (must be, surely) women in Iran that are convinced that God wants them to cover up and are fine with that. We must be careful not to replace one form of oppression with another.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
Is that a statement or a question?
You don't know what I think, other than that I have no trouble in controlling myself, when it comes to sexual provocation of women.
@muhammad_isa, can you step back a bit and consider how that reveals your attitude to men and women's sexuality? "[The] sexual provocation of women". The suggestion is that women just live to tempt men away from their chosen live of chastity. It's all their fault. They must be controlled.
My personal experience is that the situation is often the other way round. It's men that are trying to seduce women, and women often get tired of it. Not that women are asexual, far from it, but the Islamic view is very biased imo.
I have another question. You seem to believe that western civilization is in danger of collapsing (likely) because of sexual freedoms (I doubt that). Can you justify that view?
Alien826
No religious beliefs
To lighten the mood, as I like to ...
There was a play on (BBC?) years ago called "Oi veh Maria". It concerned a non religious Jewish man who married a Catholic woman, among other reasons to avoid the extreme religious observance of devout Jewish women. Unfortunately, she converted to Judaism and became as extreme a Jew as she had been a Catholic!
gnomon
Well-Known Member
I'm having difficulty unravelling that.
Don't mention it. It can be confusing "who is who" at times.
I don't automatically take the side of "the Muslims".
It really depends on the issue. We all can be at fault.
Yes...all cultural groups who hide behind a religious code of conduct which mistreat women are at fault. As I said. It's not your culture. There are so many.
Yet, oddly, the way for a dirty woman to get clean is to remove any remaining clothes -- and shower.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
It is likely..
..because it is turning away from Almighty God.
Moral values are changing, and church going decreasing.
I think there are other, more pressing threats.
Why would you think that church-going is a good thing?
Historically - and even today - Christianity has been pretty antagonistic toward Islam. Why would turning away from that be bad to you?
... or do you really feel like you have more in common with a theist who calls Muhammad an "antichrist" and throws pig blood at mosques than you do with an atheist who is happy to let you practice your faith in peace?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
..because the remembering of God is important for the soul.
I wouldn't expect an atheist to agree, obviously.