Pope Accuses Sex Abuse Victims Of Slander

[Phantasman]

"Pope Francis accused victims of Chile’s most notorious pedophile of slander, an astonishing end to a visit meant to help heal the wounds of a sex abuse scandal that has cost the Catholic Church its credibility in the country.

Francis said that until he sees proof that Bishop Juan Barros was complicit in covering up the sex crimes of the Rev. Fernando Karadimas, such accusations against Barros are “all calumny.”

The pope’s remarks on Thursday (Jan. 18) drew shock from Chileans and immediate rebuke from victims and their advocates. They noted the accusers were deemed credible enough by the Vatican that it sentenced Karadima to a lifetime of “penance and prayer” for his crimes in 2011.

A Chilean judge also found the victims to be credible, saying that while she had to drop criminal charges against Karadima because too much time had passed, proof of his crimes wasn’t lacking.

“As if I could have taken a selfie or a photo while Karadima abused me and others and Juan Barros stood by watching it all,” tweeted Barros’ most vocal accuser, Juan Carlos Cruz. “These people are truly crazy, and the pontiff talks about atonement to the victims. Nothing has changed, and his plea for forgiveness is empty.”
source​

Thoughts?

.

It's just proof that no man on earth can boast of "celestial authority" which is what a Priest is. The Nicene Creed was created by men (Priests), not God.

The Gospels and Paul never gave power to Priests and are seen as adversaries. Remove the OT, Hebrews and the pastorals, and the Priests have nothing to stand on. Which is why Jesus said to teach the "Gospel" instead of the Bible. The Gospel and Pauls use of it in spirit are the words of spirit. The rest are words of flesh, which the Priests are falling prey to, just as the Pharisee's did.

Just my view of 40 years of seeking in all areas.

 

[suncowiam]

"Pope Francis accused victims of Chile’s most notorious pedophile of slander, an astonishing end to a visit meant to help heal the wounds of a sex abuse scandal that has cost the Catholic Church its credibility in the country.

Francis said that until he sees proof that Bishop Juan Barros was complicit in covering up the sex crimes of the Rev. Fernando Karadimas, such accusations against Barros are “all calumny.”

The pope’s remarks on Thursday (Jan. 18) drew shock from Chileans and immediate rebuke from victims and their advocates. They noted the accusers were deemed credible enough by the Vatican that it sentenced Karadima to a lifetime of “penance and prayer” for his crimes in 2011.

A Chilean judge also found the victims to be credible, saying that while she had to drop criminal charges against Karadima because too much time had passed, proof of his crimes wasn’t lacking.

“As if I could have taken a selfie or a photo while Karadima abused me and others and Juan Barros stood by watching it all,” tweeted Barros’ most vocal accuser, Juan Carlos Cruz. “These people are truly crazy, and the pontiff talks about atonement to the victims. Nothing has changed, and his plea for forgiveness is empty.”
source​

Thoughts?

.

I actually posted in a separate thread that Catholicism was the most uniformed religion because it has a more formal system of processes to adhere to and correct itself.

Gonna have to eat my words.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Here in America, you are innocent until proven guilty.

Also here in America, people sue each other falsely to get something from them often.

Give me a break - this Pope has stopped so much pedophilia and when he says he thinks one of his defendants is innocent you try to step all over him!

 

[Grandliseur]

"Pope Francis accused victims of Chile’s most notorious pedophile of slander, an astonishing end to a visit meant to help heal the wounds of a sex abuse scandal that has cost the Catholic Church its credibility in the country.

Francis said that until he sees proof that Bishop Juan Barros was complicit in covering up the sex crimes of the Rev. Fernando Karadimas, such accusations against Barros are “all calumny.”

The pope’s remarks on Thursday (Jan. 18) drew shock from Chileans and immediate rebuke from victims and their advocates. They noted the accusers were deemed credible enough by the Vatican that it sentenced Karadima to a lifetime of “penance and prayer” for his crimes in 2011.

A Chilean judge also found the victims to be credible, saying that while she had to drop criminal charges against Karadima because too much time had passed, proof of his crimes wasn’t lacking.

“As if I could have taken a selfie or a photo while Karadima abused me and others and Juan Barros stood by watching it all,” tweeted Barros’ most vocal accuser, Juan Carlos Cruz. “These people are truly crazy, and the pontiff talks about atonement to the victims. Nothing has changed, and his plea for forgiveness is empty.”
source​

Thoughts?

.

Though there seem to be times of false accusations of various types of sexual conduct, those who try to minimize the wrong done to victims are sinning in the eyes of God, be this the Catholic church or any other church, or political institutions who try to cover up wrongdoing by their elected powerful people.

Such things shall be punished in its due time.

 

[Altfish]

God's representative on earth

 

[Phantasman]

God's representative on earth

Only Jesus held that position. Any man who tells others that he has the abilities to assume that position is a liar and a thief.

John 10:
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

The door is spiritual, not a church (doctrine) especially not the RCC nor the OT fathers that they follow.

"And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received their authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. Those people are dry canals."- Apocalypse of Peter

Bending to Constantine was their first mistake. They failed where Jesus succeeded when he was shown the nations in glory and told he could have them if he would just kneel (to another authority). Matthew 4:8-9

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If the Catholic Church approved of pedophilia, I don't think people would remain Catholic...there is nothing in the teachings of the church that approves of pedophilia and it is condemned as a most grave sin... the pedophiles are doing the opposite of what the church teaches...

It's not so much that the Catholic Church approves of pedophilia; it’s that it often disapproves of attempts to stop pedophilia or punish pedophiles.

For instance:

Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse

However, since the Church has made it their business to teach people that the Church is the one and only place where people can get their “spiritual food,” I can’t fault Catholics too much for staying. If they think that leaving would mean a fate akin to starvation, it’s understandable that they stay.

there is a higher percentage of pedophiles among school teachers. Does that mean we should stop sending kids to public schools?

I’d love to see where you got that stat.

And it seems to me that most school boards are much more proactive about preventing and reporting abuse than the Catholic Church has.

And no school board has the power to send a pedophile teacher to an unsuspecting school on the other side of the country. Even if the incidence of abuse was the same, the Catholic Church can inflict more harm because it has more power and influence.

 

[metis]

The Gospels and Paul never gave power to Priests and are seen as adversaries.

False, as the apostles appointed leaders, thus passing on their power given from Jesus to the next generation of leaders. The apostolic church was simply not a democracy nor a "do you own thing" entity. Jesus' criticism of "priests" applied to the Temple priests, not Christian leaders who would later be called "priests".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Here in America, you are innocent until proven guilty.

Also here in America, people sue each other falsely to get something from them often.

Give me a break - this Pope has stopped so much pedophilia and when he says he thinks one of his defendants is innocent you try to step all over him!

From the OP:

“A Chilean judge also found the victims to be credible, saying that while she had to drop criminal charges against Karadima because too much time had passed, proof of his crimes wasn’t lacking.”

Why would Francis go against the opinion of the judge who presided over the case? What effect will Francis’s statement have on other victims of priests when they’re deciding whether to come forward?

 

[metis]

BTW, I wish I could remember where I read this several years ago, but a study found that sexual abuse is roughly about as high within the Protestant as compared to Catholic clergy, although the pattern is different with Catholic clergy having a higher percentage involved with pedofilia and Protestant clergy having a higher rate of adult sexual abuse, probably many against their spouses.

However, to be clear, this in no way is any kind of excuse for all too many in the Catholic clergy who have abused their power, so please don't read what I'm saying as being as such.

 

[Phantasman]

False, as the apostles appointed leaders, thus passing on their power given from Jesus to the next generation of leaders. The apostolic church was simply not a democracy nor a "do you own thing" entity. Jesus' criticism of "priests" applied to the Temple priests, not Christian leaders who would later be called "priests".

You have no proof of those words. Paul appointed deacons (helpers) and bishops (elders of the Word). Their intent was to lead men to find the truth, not tell them what is truth. Priests are neither, and seen as complete authority over the Word.

The hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church did not approve of some of the words and phrases introduced by Tyndale, such as "overseer", where it would have been understood as "bishop", "elder" for "priest", and "love" rather than "charity". Tyndale, citing Erasmus, contended that the Greek New Testament did not support the traditional Roman Catholic readings.- WIKI on William Tyndale from Brian Moynahan

I can show you that there is no room for Priests over and over in the canon as well as the non canon gospels. Show me one, unless you pull from Hebrews or the Pastorals who have no named authors.

The power the Priests held tried to destroy the Word. When it couldn't be destroyed, they just distorted it.

If you want to go down this road, ammo up. I'm ready.

 

[Spiderman]

It's not so much that the Catholic Church approves of pedophilia; it’s that it often disapproves of attempts to stop pedophilia or punish pedophiles.

For instance:

Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse

However, since the Church has made it their business to teach people that the Church is the one and only place where people can get their “spiritual food,” I can’t fault Catholics too much for staying. If they think that leaving would mean a fate akin to starvation, it’s understandable that they stay.


I’d love to see where you got that stat.

And it seems to me that most school boards are much more proactive about preventing and reporting abuse than the Catholic Church has.

And no school board has the power to send a pedophile teacher to an unsuspecting school on the other side of the country. Even if the incidence of abuse was the same, the Catholic Church can inflict more harm because it has more power and influence.

[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?" she said. "The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."
Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?

 

[Revoltingest]

[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?" she said. "The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."
Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?

This "100 times" figure is unsupported.
The author also use statistics which aren't comparable, eg,
including underage sex with adults in the pedophila category.
And finally, the church systematically protects & enables pedophiles,
while the same claim against schools is unsupported.

About the author.....

Tom Hoopes is executive editor of the National Catholic Register and, with his wife, April, is editorial director of Faith & Family magazine.

No wonder he tries to exculpate the church by pointing
his finger at others with mischievous claims.

 

[Tmac]

The fundamental rule:
Don't attack the victims.

If it isn't the rule, then it should be.

Actually, the rule reads, attack the victims first.

 

[robocop (actually)]

From the OP:

“A Chilean judge also found the victims to be credible, saying that while she had to drop criminal charges against Karadima because too much time had passed, proof of his crimes wasn’t lacking.”

Why would Francis go against the opinion of the judge who presided over the case? What effect will Francis’s statement have on other victims of priests when they’re deciding whether to come forward?

OK... I guess that's different.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Still... the Pope has done much good. I don't think we should drop him over one case when he has probably stopped thousands of pedophiles.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

If the Catholic Church approved of pedophilia, I don't think people would remain Catholic...there is nothing in the teachings of the church that approves of pedophilia and it is condemned as a most grave sin...

Not that you'd know considering the lengths to which paedophiles are protected and enabled by the Church hierarchy.

the pedophiles are doing the opposite of what the church teaches...

When nuns do things the Church doesn't like they get excommunicated. When priests abuse children things only happen if secular authorities find out.

there is a higher percentage of pedophiles among school teachers. Does that mean we should stop sending kids to public schools?

Source for this claim?

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually, the rule reads, attack the victims first.

Hmmm......the scripture should be changed then.

 

[Rival]

Source for this claim?

It's kinda just common knowledge, ahem.

1) Paedophiles and hebephiles want to be around kids. Working in a school beats being a priest in this and the U.K. is relatively atheistic in population, so few consider the priesthood.

2) Becoming a teacher is relatively simple, compared to, say, becoming a medic, solicitor or scientist. Becoming a TA is even simpler, consisting of just a course over one year and then you are qualified. It costs little compared to a university degree.

3) Female paedophiles and hebephiles are very underrepresented and many primary school teachers and TAs especially are females.

4) Few are caught, in the grand scheme of things.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It's kinda just common knowledge, ahem.

1) Paedophiles and hebephiles want to be around kids. Working in a school beats being a priest in this and the U.K. is relatively atheistic in population, so few consider the priesthood.

2) Becoming a teacher is relatively simple, compared to, say, becoming a medic, solicitor or scientist. Becoming a TA is even simpler, consisting of just a course over one year and then you are qualified. It costs little compared to a university degree.

3) Female paedophiles and hebephiles are very underrepresented and many primary school teachers and TAs especially are females.

4) Few are caught, in the grand scheme of things.

Ah, but was Pope talking about the UK or somewhere else? That makes a difference. Also, how much easier is it to become a priest/monk than any of those professions? You're not subjected to the same oversight public figures like teachers, medics or solicitors are. When they abuse kids something is actually done about it yet even now there is a culture of turning the other cheek when priests are outed as kiddy-fiddlers.