Pope states condoms aren't the answer to HIV

[emiliano]

Directing this strategy toward any group of people will lead to some of them dying, and is irresponsible. As I have said before, even if his statements only lead to the deaths of Catholics, he's still killing people.

Considerer that at this point in time there is no cure for this STD disease, and the stander measure for this type of infection is containment and isolation of those infected.

 

[darkendless]

We're on page 60 and people still don't get that, my guess is they just aren't going to. :no:

Its all to easy to palm the blame off, the Church is used to it, their followers blame "evil" and "satan" for unfortunate events.

What makes you think the church would take even 1% responsibility when according to their sources, their programmes are working? Then again, their sources find what they are told to find. If they don't, then they are of no use to the church that would rather lie and fabricate the truth than address the problem which is challenging their long standing dogma.

 

[emiliano]

Let’s have a look at one city closer to home for you boys.

HIGH RATE OF INFECTIONS

New York has long been known as the center of the domestic AIDS crisis. The AIDS rate in New York State remains at about double the national rate for men and triple the national rate for women. There are 90,298 city residents known to be living with AIDS, and up to 45,000 more who don’t know that they’re infected. In the quarter century since the AIDS epidemnic began, the city has suffered 16 percent of the national death toll, with over 85,000 AIDS casualties to date. (summary of most recent NYC AIDS statistics in pdf format).
The reasons cited for New York's high AIDS rates include the city's high levels of drug use, a permissive sexual atmosphere and widespread poverty. The combination of these factors is what makes New York’s epidemic distinct.
http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/issueoftheweek/20050328/200/1361

Would the Pope Counsel for abstinence help these people? Behaviour modification plus abstinence is the way to go, listen to the Pope and learn your ABC. I asked myself many times, are the manufacturers of condom interest in finding a cure for this disease? Or it would ruin a good business? Are you shocked that the problems are “the city's high levels of drug use, a permissive sexual atmosphere and widespread poverty”?

 

[Tristesse]

What do people think of this latest comment from the Pope?

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/WorldNewsArticle.htm?src=w031715A.xml

He's a genocidal maniac and should be stopped.

 

[Imagist]

One cannot overcome the problem with the distribution of condoms. On the contrary, they increase the problem.

I don't think this squares with Imagist's statement that the Church teaches it is better to die than to have sex with condoms.

This quote in particular doesn't. It merely shows that the pope doesn't know that condoms are very effective in reducing the problem of HIV/AIDS.

However, the church's teachings in general are prohibitive of condom use, while they make no such prohibitions against unprotected sex with an infected person. This squares very firmly with my statement.

 

[challupa]

I guess a question that might be asked is this: If condoms were not a form of birth control, would the pope approve them for HIV prevention?

 

[DallasApple]

Seriously your right..

Just dont have sex ever lest you're married(so people are guilted into getting marrieed at 17 or 25 however long you can avoid one of the most natural things in the world)..and even then have 10 or 12 children (or untill the woman dies)..

Thats a good plan..

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

I guess a question that might be asked is this: If condoms were not a form of birth control, would the pope approve them for HIV prevention?

Are they married?

LOve

Dallas

 

[challupa]

Are they married?

LOve

Dallas

Well that's the point. At the moment the two seem to be tied together. Would they be divorced if condoms didn't prevent pregnancy?

 

[Imagist]

It's an interesting question, but I don't think it's one that anyone here is qualified to answer on behalf of the catholic church.

The real question is, what is the problem with birth control? Even if we assume that human life begins at conception (which is already a ridiculous claim), condoms don't allow conception to happen in the first place.

I think this is a topic for another thread, so I'll start one.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Even if we assume that human life begins at conception

That's not a ridiculous claim, that's \a widely held scientific opinion. The question is when "person hood" begins.

(e.g) Scientists Attest To Life Beginning At Conception

Professor Hymie Gordon, Mayo Clinic: "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."

Dr. Watson A. Bowes, University of Colorado Medical School: "The beginning of a single human life is from a biological point of view a simple and straightforward matter—the beginning is conception. This straightforward biological fact should not be distorted to serve sociological, political, or economic goals."

Ashley Montague, a geneticist and professor at Harvard and Rutgers, is unsympathetic to the prolife cause. Nevertheless, he affirms unequivocally, "The basic fact is simple: life begins not at birth, but conception."3

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

However, the church's teachings in general are prohibitive of condom use, while they make no such prohibitions against unprotected sex with an infected person. This squares very firmly with my statement.

Imagist, the Church would say "don't have sex with an infected person".

 

[emiliano]

He's a genocidal maniac and should be stopped.

Those are strong words indeed; I agree that the two positions are an attempt to genocide by stopping the HIV infected from reproducing as they will die off unless a cure is found, and further more this is the first infection control standard measures in contagious diseases out breaks that don’t have a cure. So if your objection to the Pope statement is based on the genocidal dramatization of his counsel I suggest that you have a look at what is the result of using condoms, you will find that it is the same to breed them out of the population, while you are at it you may also want to think and give your opinion on this as well. Would the condoms manufactures want and support the search for a cure?

 

[Mister Emu]

It merely shows that the pope doesn't know that condoms are very effective in reducing the problem of HIV/AIDS.

The distribution of condoms has not brought any meaningful reduction, that I know of, of HIV/AIDS prevelance in Africa...

 

[emiliano]

Imagist, the Church would say "don't have sex with an infected person".

Good short and to the point, I wish you luck getting this though to them. And I will add that the church teaches, if you got infected don't spread it, don't hide it, repent from the sin that put you in this predicament and atone by abstaining and save your soul.

 

[Sententia]

The distribution of condoms has not brought any meaningful reduction, that I know of, of HIV/AIDS prevelance in Africa...

And you knowing is a very important factor in the reduction... no... meaningful reduction of aids in africa? I dont get the comment... Are you implying you are ignorant that condoms do anything to reduce the spread of Aids? And if so to what end?

The Telegraph also quoted Lisa Power of Britain's homosexualist activist group, the Terrence Higgins Trust, who said, "We deeply regret the continued misinformation around condoms, which remain the most effective way of preventing the spread of HIV.
"Both abstinence and condoms are valid weapons in the fight against HIV, but unfortunately abstinence has a far higher failure rate."
Rebecca Hodes, of the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa, told the Guardian that the Pope's "opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans."

 

[Mister Emu]

And you knowing is a very important factor in the reduction... no... meaningful reduction of aids in africa? I dont get the comment...

I've never heard of any data where the distribution of condoms has caused any reduction, much less meaningful, in HIV/AIDS prevelance... perhaps you could show me some if my knowledge is lacking?

Are you implying you are ignorant that condoms do anything to reduce the spread of Aids? And if so to what end?

The distribution of condoms has lowered the HIV/AIDS prevelance in Africa? I would be ignorant of that...

 

[Sententia]

I've never heard of any data where the distribution of condoms has caused any reduction, much less meaningful, in HIV/AIDS prevelance... perhaps you could show me some if my knowledge is lacking?

The distribution of condoms has lowered the HIV/AIDS prevelance in Africa? I would be ignorant of that...

Why would you knowing or not knowing matter? Are you trying to argue a point from ignorance or making a claim or suggested course of action?

To me it sounds like your saying... I dunno... Care to google stuff for me and find out and let me know? Cause I dunno.

So be happy in not knowing. I just don't understand your point.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

I think Mr. Emu is asking for you to post your own statistics that inform your so certain opinion. I have read that, even with the massive increases in funding and the increased distribution of condoms, infection rates continue to go up. The places were rates have gone done are where distribution has been coupled with behavior modification strategies.

 

[Sententia]

I think Mr. Emu is asking for you to post your own statistics that inform your so certain opinion. I have read that, even with the massive increases in funding and the increased distribution of condoms, infection rates continue to go up. The places were rates have gone done are where distribution has been coupled with behavior modification strategies.

You have read that just dumping condoms into the river over in africa did nothing to stem the spread of aids but a program where they were actually handed to people and shown how to use them and their purpose was explained had better results?

Interesting.