Pope's call to end Fundamentalism

[TransmutingSoul]

This speech by the Pope is worth considering.

Pope: Religions must be purified of extremism, self-righteousness - Catholic News Service

Pope Francis said.

“It is time to realize that fundamentalism defiles and corrupts every creed; time for open and compassionate hearts,”

And

“We need religion in order to respond to the thirst for world peace and the thirst for the infinite that dwells in the heart of each man and woman,”

So, will we finally see the breakdown of literal interpretation of scripture, which has been the fundamental cause of the demise and suppression of religion?

Regards Tony

 

[Estro Felino]

Catholicism has never been literalist....indeed.
By the way, I am glad the Pope made this appeal.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Catholicism has never been literalist....indeed.
By the way, I am glad the Pope made this appeal.

Yes indeed, I see that upon that Church, Jesus the Christ did build the Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[AlexanderG]

Good for him. It always seems like the more loosely we interpret an ancient holy scripture, the more it becomes compatible with everything humanity has since learned about decency, empathy, and the pragmatic factors that promote human flourishing.

Churches are still good for improving socialization, self-contemplation, and marking life's milestones, which are important for being a happy healthy human. But we can get all of this from kinder interpretations, or even from secular sources. Without all that bronze-age baggage.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But we can get all of this from kinder interpretations, or even from secular sources. Without all that bronze-age baggage.

Personally I see the kinder interpretations still come from all the bronze age bags

I see the elimination of fundamental mindsets will come about from embracing the kinder interpretations, that are the foundation of all the past Faiths.

Scientific advancement is a key to the elimination of a lot of literal interpretation.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

Scientific advancement is a key to the elimination of a lot of literal interpretation.

Scientific advancement plus post-hoc rationalisation of the scriptures to accommodate science that it was never intended for.

In my opinion.

 

[Kenny]

This speech by the Pope is worth considering.

Pope: Religions must be purified of extremism, self-righteousness - Catholic News Service

Pope Francis said.

“It is time to realize that fundamentalism defiles and corrupts every creed; time for open and compassionate hearts,”

And

“We need religion in order to respond to the thirst for world peace and the thirst for the infinite that dwells in the heart of each man and woman,”

So, will we finally see the breakdown of literal interpretation of scripture, which has been the fundamental cause of the demise and suppression of religion?

Regards Tony

What is fundamentalism?

Edited

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What is fundamentalism? Surely it is not having a compassionate heart.

You are correct. The Pope in that speach identifies literal interpretation as a fundamental issue.

Regards Tony

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

This speech by the Pope is worth considering.

Pope: Religions must be purified of extremism, self-righteousness - Catholic News Service

Pope Francis said.

“It is time to realize that fundamentalism defiles and corrupts every creed; time for open and compassionate hearts,”

And

“We need religion in order to respond to the thirst for world peace and the thirst for the infinite that dwells in the heart of each man and woman,”

So, will we finally see the breakdown of literal interpretation of scripture, which has been the fundamental cause of the demise and suppression of religion?

Regards Tony

I doubt that it will do much good. Fundamentalists don't typically think much of the Catholic version of Christianity, or the Pope.

 

[exchemist]

Good for him. It always seems like the more loosely we interpret an ancient holy scripture, the more it becomes compatible with everything humanity has since learned about decency, empathy, and the pragmatic factors that promote human flourishing.

Churches are still good for improving socialization, self-contemplation, and marking life's milestones, which are important for being a happy healthy human. But we can get all of this from kinder interpretations, or even from secular sources. Without all that bronze-age baggage.

Hear hear.

 

[Kenny]

You are correct. The Pope in that speach identifies literal interpretation as a fundamental issue.

Regards Tony

So, I shouldn't literally "Love your neighbor as yourself"?

 

[Brickjectivity]

What is fundamentalism? Surely it is not having a compassionate heart.

Yes. Or it could be pride. Could be a lack of forgiveness. It could just be a mental problem, sometimes. I've met plenty of mental people who were unable to think flexibly. That is not uncommon out of a hundred or so people.

 

[exchemist]

I doubt that it will do much good. Fundamentalists don't typically think much of the Catholic version of Christianity, or the Pope.

There are pockets of fundamentalism even among some Catholics (especially the mad, swivel-eyed sort they have in the USA.)

But on the whole I agree, Christian fundamentalism is largely a Protestant phenomenon. As for fundamentalism in other religions, well that's for them to deal with. However at least the pope is now clearly distancing Catholicism from that style of religion.

 

[exchemist]

So, I shouldn't literally "Love your neighbor as yourself"?

That is being deliberately obtuse, Ken. You know as well as I do what is meant by biblical literalism.

 

[metis]

What is fundamentalism?

Edited

George Marsden has defined Christian fundamentalism as the demand for strict adherence to certain theological doctrines, in opposition to Modernist theology.[15] Its supporters originally coined the term in order to describe what they claimed were five specific classic theological beliefs of Christianity, and the coinage of the term led to the development of a Christian fundamentalist movement within the Protestant community of the United States in the early part of the 20th century.[16] Fundamentalism as a movement arose in the United States, starting among conservative Presbyterian theologians at Princeton Theological Seminary in the late 19th century. It soon spread to conservatives among the Baptists and other denominations around 1910 to 1920. The movement's purpose was to reaffirm key theological tenets and defend them against the challenges of liberal theology and higher criticism...

"Fundamentalism" was prefigured by The Fundamentals: A Testimony To The Truth, a collection of twelve pamphlets published between 1910 and 1915 by brothers Milton and Lyman Stewart. It is widely considered to be the foundation of modern Christian fundamentalism.

In 1910, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church identified what became known as the five fundamentals:[18]

• Biblical inspiration and the infallibility of scripture as a result of this
• Virgin birth of Jesus
• Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
• Bodily resurrection of Jesus
• Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus... -- Fundamentalism - Wikipedia

 

[Brickjectivity]

So, I shouldn't literally "Love your neighbor as yourself"?

It is a good question. Its possible to take even this verse reductively and make it ineffective. So for example if you are sticking literally to the words you can then try to pretend that 'Yourself' is being denied, so it means to deny your neighbor. That's one way to make it literal and then empty it of its force. So don't love yourself --> or your neighbor would be one very literal take. There are other literal takes as well, but you have to use your intelligence and not be literal. You should usually avoid being like an autistic about reading scriptures.

 

[exchemist]

George Marsden has defined Christian fundamentalism as the demand for strict adherence to certain theological doctrines, in opposition to Modernist theology.[15] Its supporters originally coined the term in order to describe what they claimed were five specific classic theological beliefs of Christianity, and the coinage of the term led to the development of a Christian fundamentalist movement within the Protestant community of the United States in the early part of the 20th century.[16] Fundamentalism as a movement arose in the United States, starting among conservative Presbyterian theologians at Princeton Theological Seminary in the late 19th century. It soon spread to conservatives among the Baptists and other denominations around 1910 to 1920. The movement's purpose was to reaffirm key theological tenets and defend them against the challenges of liberal theology and higher criticism...

"Fundamentalism" was prefigured by The Fundamentals: A Testimony To The Truth, a collection of twelve pamphlets published between 1910 and 1915 by brothers Milton and Lyman Stewart. It is widely considered to be the foundation of modern Christian fundamentalism.

In 1910, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church identified what became known as the five fundamentals:[18]

• Biblical inspiration and the infallibility of scripture as a result of this
• Virgin birth of Jesus
• Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
• Bodily resurrection of Jesus
• Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus... -- Fundamentalism - Wikipedia

Much of which is pretty unremarkable. It is in the definition of biblical infallibility - and its interpretation as complete "inerrancy" - that many fundamentalists part company with rationality.

 

[Kenny]

That is being deliberately obtuse, Ken. You know as well as I do what is meant by biblical literalism.

It's too broad of a brush to make it applicable. It is even a BROADER brush to say that is the problem of today's ills. Maybe it would help if he wasn't so dogmatic about it?

 

[Kenny]

George Marsden has defined Christian fundamentalism as the demand for strict adherence to certain theological doctrines, in opposition to Modernist theology.[15] Its supporters originally coined the term in order to describe what they claimed were five specific classic theological beliefs of Christianity, and the coinage of the term led to the development of a Christian fundamentalist movement within the Protestant community of the United States in the early part of the 20th century.[16] Fundamentalism as a movement arose in the United States, starting among conservative Presbyterian theologians at Princeton Theological Seminary in the late 19th century. It soon spread to conservatives among the Baptists and other denominations around 1910 to 1920. The movement's purpose was to reaffirm key theological tenets and defend them against the challenges of liberal theology and higher criticism...

"Fundamentalism" was prefigured by The Fundamentals: A Testimony To The Truth, a collection of twelve pamphlets published between 1910 and 1915 by brothers Milton and Lyman Stewart. It is widely considered to be the foundation of modern Christian fundamentalism.

In 1910, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church identified what became known as the five fundamentals:[18]

• Biblical inspiration and the infallibility of scripture as a result of this
• Virgin birth of Jesus
• Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
• Bodily resurrection of Jesus
• Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus... -- Fundamentalism - Wikipedia

Ok....

but how does that fit, "“It is time to realize that fundamentalism defiles and corrupts every creed; time for open and compassionate hearts,”"

How does one = the other?

 

[dybmh]

So, will we finally see the breakdown of literal interpretation of scripture, which has been the fundamental cause of the demise and suppression of religion?

Does this mean that Baha'u'llah's scripture is not intended to be understood literally?