Pope's call to end Fundamentalism

[BilliardsBall]

There is a lot of self examination required when one makes such a statement.

I personally have found that when we call out fault for others, that the fault we are calling out is still inherent in our own selves.

He who is without fault can cast the first stone and no one alive today can cast a stone.

Regards Tony

Tony, are you finding fault with me in your post?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony, are you finding fault with me in your post?

No, not at all, you actually made a sound and valid point, I read my reply and wonder why I said that? Go figure, it had naught to do what you said, so sorry, that reply is owned by me, I said it to my own self.

I agree with what you offered. You are most likely aware Baha'u'llah offered that the priests should marry and stop all Self-flagellation and associated practices that do not serve humanity, so I will share some quotes as this was also raised by @England my lionheart

"In the Tablet to Napoleon III we read:—
O concourse of monks! Seclude not yourselves in churches and cloisters. Come forth by My leave, and occupy yourselves with that which will profit your souls and the souls of men. … Enter ye into wedlock, that after you someone may fill your place. We have forbidden you perfidious acts, and not that which will demonstrate fidelity. Have ye clung to the standards fixed by your own selves, and cast the standards of God behind your backs? Fear God, and be not of the foolish. But for man, who would make mention of Me on My earth, and how could My attributes and My name have been revealed? Ponder ye, and be not of them that are veiled and fast asleep. He that wedded not (Jesus) found no place wherein to dwell or lay His head, by reason of that which the hands of the treacherous had wrought. His sanctity consisteth not in that which ye believe or fancy, but rather in the things We possess. Ask, that ye may apprehend His station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth. Blessed are they who perceive it."

The Quran had previously offered this.

"To Jesus the son of Mary We gave the Gospel, and We put into the hearts of those who followed Him kindness and compassion: but as to the monastic life, they invented it themselves. The desire only of pleasing god did We prescribe to them, and this they observed not as it ought to have been observed.—Qur’án, s. lviii. 27."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 175-176

So you have correctly identified an aspect of fundamentalism that is not productive in promoting the well-being of all humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[Thea]

Exactly, why did Protestants break away from the Catholic Church? ...

It started in Europe in the 16th century, but the roots are in the 14th century.

Then there was first the Great Famine, this killed an estimated 5-12% of the population. And after that the plague killed an estimated 30-50% of the already weakened population.

At the time, people believed that disasters and diseases were the result of them not pleasing God. E.g. the flagellants came into existence to repel the plague (the Pope outlawed them).

Roman Catholicism was the main religion at the time. So various people started thinking RC was not working and a new religion was required. Finally it was Luther who sparked the Reformation in 1517.

 

[CG Didymus]

It started in Europe in the 16th century, but the roots are in the 14th century.

Then there was first the Great Famine, this killed an estimated 5-12% of the population. And after that the plague killed an estimated 30-50% of the already weakened population.

At the time, people believed that disasters and diseases were the result of them not pleasing God. E.g. the flagellants came into existence to repel the plague (the Pope outlawed them).

Roman Catholicism was the main religion at the time. So various people started thinking RC was not working and a new religion was required. Finally it was Luther who sparked the Reformation in 1517.

Yeah, the Catholic Church was the "Fundamentalist" Church back then. By that I mean a religious group that was forcing their beliefs on others and torturing people to get them to convert and taking the Bible way too literal judging by what they did to Galileo. But that was then. The Catholic Church has been making a lot of changes.

But still, isn't it strange that if a religious group takes their Scriptures too literally it becomes something bad? So then... should all religions lighten up on how seriously they take their Scriptures?

 

[YoursTrue]

There are also parallels between this story and Luke’s parable of the rich man and poor Lazarus. In both a man named Lazarus dies; in Luke, there is a request that he return to convince his contemporaries of the need for faith and repentance, while in John, Lazarus does return and some believe but others do not. Lazarus is a token of the real life that Jesus dead and raised will give to all who believe in him. It is the longest continuous narrative in John outside of the passion account and is the climax of the signs.

You're on the right track when it comes to the Lazarus that Jesus resurrected from the dead (not the Lazarus in the parable, which represented something). The one that Jesus resurrected from the dead would obviously die again. And await (not consciously) the coming resurrection of the dead.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, not at all, you actually made a sound and valid point, I read my reply and wonder why I said that? Go figure, it had naught to do what you said, so sorry, that reply is owned by me, I said it to my own self.

I agree with what you offered. You are most likely aware Baha'u'llah offered that the priests should marry and stop all Self-flagellation and associated practices that do not serve humanity, so I will share some quotes as this was also raised by @England my lionheart

"In the Tablet to Napoleon III we read:—
O concourse of monks! Seclude not yourselves in churches and cloisters. Come forth by My leave, and occupy yourselves with that which will profit your souls and the souls of men. … Enter ye into wedlock, that after you someone may fill your place. We have forbidden you perfidious acts, and not that which will demonstrate fidelity. Have ye clung to the standards fixed by your own selves, and cast the standards of God behind your backs? Fear God, and be not of the foolish. But for man, who would make mention of Me on My earth, and how could My attributes and My name have been revealed? Ponder ye, and be not of them that are veiled and fast asleep. He that wedded not (Jesus) found no place wherein to dwell or lay His head, by reason of that which the hands of the treacherous had wrought. His sanctity consisteth not in that which ye believe or fancy, but rather in the things We possess. Ask, that ye may apprehend His station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth. Blessed are they who perceive it."

The Quran had previously offered this.

"To Jesus the son of Mary We gave the Gospel, and We put into the hearts of those who followed Him kindness and compassion: but as to the monastic life, they invented it themselves. The desire only of pleasing god did We prescribe to them, and this they observed not as it ought to have been observed.—Qur’án, s. lviii. 27."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 175-176

So you have correctly identified an aspect of fundamentalism that is not productive in promoting the well-being of all humanity.

Regards Tony

Thank you, Tony. You are kind.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah, the Catholic Church was the "Fundamentalist" Church back then. By that I mean a religious group that was forcing their beliefs on others and torturing people to get them to convert and taking the Bible way too literal judging by what they did to Galileo. But that was then. The Catholic Church has been making a lot of changes.

But still, isn't it strange that if a religious group takes their Scriptures too literally it becomes something bad? So then... should all religions lighten up on how seriously they take their Scriptures?

We need to re-evaluate what they were given to us for. They are given so we can find Love, unity and peace.

If we have used them in other ways, we need to change.

This is where the material laws given in scriptures are a guiding light. When they stop being so, God sends another Messenger with Laws to suit the age. Humanity will not find peace until those laws are embraced.

Regards Tony

 

[Muffled]

That would be a sound conclusion.

Regards Tony

I do not believe theological arrogance is fundamental to my religion. It does occur but that is because men are sinful.

 

[shunyadragon]

This speech by the Pope is worth considering.

Pope: Religions must be purified of extremism, self-righteousness - Catholic News Service

Pope Francis said.

“It is time to realize that fundamentalism defiles and corrupts every creed; time for open and compassionate hearts,”

And

“We need religion in order to respond to the thirst for world peace and the thirst for the infinite that dwells in the heart of each man and woman,”

So, will we finally see the breakdown of literal interpretation of scripture, which has been the fundamental cause of the demise and suppression of religion?

Regards Tony

The problem with this is that yes, considering the Bible and the NT as it is in the context of the times it was written the Fundamentalists have a strong foundation for their beliefs. The NT literally endorses a literal interpretation of Genesis.

The bottom line is that ancient scripture inspires divisions and conflicts among believers trying to make ancient scripture to be force fit into the contemporary world through a wide range of conflicting interpretations.