Pope's call to end Fundamentalism

[TransmutingSoul]

I would say to Pope:

Therefore you are without excuse, O man, whoever you are who judge. For in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself. For you who judge practice the same things.
Romans 2:1

It always sounds bad when people get the idea that they must purify. Most of the time it seems to lead to killing of the non-pure people. And in this case Pope is in my opinion doing exactly what he judges others to be guilty.

I see the Pope was also offering this to all Christians as well.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We can hope and pray that Rome will abolish its fundamental belief that priests should remain celibate rather than choosing marriage as an option--and other extreme fundamentalist views.

There is a lot of self examination required when one makes such a statement.

I personally have found that when we call out fault for others, that the fault we are calling out is still inherent in our own selves.

He who is without fault can cast the first stone and no one alive today can cast a stone.

Regards Tony

 

[Thea]

This speech by the Pope …

So, will we finally see the breakdown of literal interpretation of scripture …

Roman Catholicism never was about “literal interpretation” as RC is not based only on “scripture. It is also based on a direct connection with the Holy Spirit by each believer.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Roman Catholicism never was about “literal interpretation” as RC is not based only on “scripture. It is also based on a direct connection with the Holy Spirit by each believer.

I would offer that the connection lays in our ability to pick up the cross and follow the example of Jesus as the Christ.

There is a lot to discuss.

Regards Tony

 

[Thea]

…

There is a lot to discuss. …

Imo you have chosen to try to squeeze the Christian Faith inside the set frame of Baha’i, imo this blinds you to the essence of RC which is the union with God. Be well, regards Cobie.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Imo you have chosen to try to squeeze the Christian Faith inside the set frame of Baha’i, imo this blinds you to the essence of RC which is the union with God. Be well, regards Cobie.

John 16 explains it all. It may be that has not been seen in the light of this age.

Regards Tony

 

[syo]

So, will we finally see the breakdown of literal interpretation of scripture, which has been the fundamental cause of the demise and suppression of religion?

Who knows?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Who knows?

Well it is promised, and I will admit that I am very positive we will be able to move away from extreme fundamentalisim when I asked that question.

As we can now observe, it will be a difficult transition and there is a lot worse yet to come, but at the same time, that ability to find a better balance is unfolding in the stead of the destruction.

So one day we will wake up and the world will be working together as one human family. Maybe just a lot less of us!

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I doubt that it will do much good. Fundamentalists don't typically think much of the Catholic version of Christianity, or the Pope.

Let's hope that change can be embraced. I see change is inevitable.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I doubt that it will do much good. Fundamentalists don't typically think much of the Catholic version of Christianity, or the Pope.

Exactly, why did Protestants break away from the Catholic Church? I don't think it was because they were so good and holy. And why did some Christians think they had to spell out what are the "fundamental" beliefs that a person needs to believe to be a Christian. Are those beliefs wrong? Well yeah, to a lot of us. But it's pretty accurate for those that do take the Christian Bible as being the literal word of God.

 

[pearl]

I think its good to remember that when it comes to a form of Catholic fundamentalism it has more to do with certain doctrines. As for Scripture, remember that most Catholics, were not familiar enough to know the difference between a literalist interpretation of Scripture. Not until Vatican II were Catholics encouraged to read Scripture. Along with addressing scholarship and the role of exegetes, etc. One of the first official documents concerning the Gospels 'The Historical Truth of the Gospels'. So, Catholics have never given literalism much concern. Fundamentalist Catholics would be those who oppose the Council itself in concern for tradition, not Scripture.

 

[CG Didymus]

Fundamentalism has its foundations in the literal or erroneous interpretations of scriptures.

What is "erroneous" in these "five fundamentals"? And I'd hope you'd say why.

In 1910, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church identified what became known as the five fundamentals:[18]

• Biblical inspiration and the infallibility of scripture as a result of this
• Virgin birth of Jesus
• Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
• Bodily resurrection of Jesus
• Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus... -- Fundamentalism - Wikipedia

And we could find what the main beliefs, or "fundamentals" are of every religion. Including the Catholics and Baha'is. What would they be? And what would they be based on? I'm guessing probably some Scriptures and an interpretation of those Scriptures.

I do not believe fundamentalism in essence is extreme nor self righteous.

Literal interpretation is not fundamentalism in essence but there is no doubt that not everything in the Bible can be literal. Certainly parables are fictional stories and should not be considered as literally occurring events.

And if that interpretation of some Scriptures is too literal, does that make it wrong? Or bad? What religion doesn't take it's Scriptures as being the truth and something that should be believed in as literally as possible?

 

[CG Didymus]

Does this mean that Baha'u'llah's scripture is not intended to be understood literally?

I'm afraid that it does not apply to them, because their teachings, they believe, haven't been corrupted by "erroneous" interpretations. I get the feeling that what their religion teaches can be trusted to be the truth. It's just the rest of the religions that shouldn't take their Scriptures so literally. It does nothing but cause divisions.

 

[PearlSeeker]

The Pope in that speach identifies literal interpretation as a fundamental issue.

Sorry, in the article and video in the link you provided I couldn't find any mention of the interpretation of scripture. Where did you get this information?

As I understand Pope's message was that all religions should together promote peace and nonviolence.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sorry, in the article and video in the link you provided I couldn't find any mention of the interpretation of scripture. Where did you get this information?

As I understand Pope's message was that all religions should together promote peace and nonviolence.

Where did the beliefs come from then, if it is not the word as recorded in the Bible?

A creed is a summary.

Creed is a "reading or statement of belief that summarizes the faith it represents; a definite summary of what is believed; a confession of faith for public use".

Francis said.

“It is time to realize that fundamentalism defiles and corrupts every creed; time for open and compassionate hearts,”

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is a bigger topic. There are two aspects to scripture. There is both an outward literal meaning, but there is also many hidden and spiritual meanings.

The issue is, taking the literal meaning and adding ones own thoughts and cementing it in place as a fundamental truth. This usually ends in conflict and division.

Baha'u'llah has explained this in detail.

Regards Tony

I'm afraid that it does not apply to them, because their teachings, they believe, haven't been corrupted by "erroneous" interpretations. I get the feeling that their religion teaches can be trusted to be the truth. It's just the rest of the religions that shouldn't take their Scriptures so literally. It does nothing but cause divisions.

Already answered.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What is "erroneous" in these "five fundamentals"? And I'd hope you'd say why.

That is a personal choice to decide CG.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Where did the beliefs come from then, if it is not the word as recorded in the Bible?

A creed is a summary.

Creed is a "reading or statement of belief that summarizes the faith it represents; a definite summary of what is believed; a confession of faith for public use".

Francis said.

“It is time to realize that fundamentalism defiles and corrupts every creed; time for open and compassionate hearts,”

Regards Tony

Instead of saying "fundamentalism" what if we just say taking any religious beliefs literally and to the extreme isn't a good thing to do. Only problem... some religions claim the truth they believe in came from an all-knowing God. But that doesn't matter? That the teachings of any religion shouldn't be taken too literally and any interpretations of the Scriptures by the leaders of any religion should not be taken literally? Yeah, a lot of people do that. They no longer take the religions of their parents seriously. But that's probably not exactly what you mean. The good stuff. The spiritual teachings and the moral codes that's okay. All people should follow those. It's just the other stuff, those "erroneous" and "fundamental" beliefs, those are bad.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Instead of saying "fundamentalism" what if we just say taking any religious beliefs literally and to the extreme isn't a good thing to do. Only problem... some religions claim the truth they believe in came from an all-knowing God. But that doesn't matter? That the teachings of any religion shouldn't be taken too literally and any interpretations of the Scriptures by the leaders of any religion should not be taken literally? Yeah, a lot of people do that. They no longer take the religions of their parents seriously. But that's probably not exactly what you mean. The good stuff. The spiritual teachings and the moral codes that's okay. All people should follow those. It's just the other stuff, those "erroneous" and "fundamental" beliefs, those are bad.

The Pope chose those specific words.

I shared his message.

Regards Tony

 

[PearlSeeker]

Where did the beliefs come from then, if it is not the word as recorded in the Bible?

A creed is a summary.

Creed is a "reading or statement of belief that summarizes the faith it represents; a definite summary of what is believed; a confession of faith for public use".

Francis said.

“It is time to realize that fundamentalism defiles and corrupts every creed; time for open and compassionate hearts,”

Regards Tony

I don't think official creeds are the problem. It's the way people add to or distort their Creed. For example the Nicene Creed doesn't command nothing violent. "I belive in God the Father..." But some add something like this: "I belive in God the Father... AND those who don't believe the same as me are total morons... and have to be forced to believe the same as me... or else... "