Praise God but don't blame it!

[search the scriptures]

"Firstly, if one knows God, how can he/she rebel? I thought the angels did not have free will and that is why God created man. Then again, I think it was a Muslim who told me this. (it can all get very confusing)"

"if one knows God, how can he/she rebel?"

by choice. self centered desire.

" I thought the angels did not have free will and that is why God created man."

angels do have free will, if not the devil wouldn't be evil, he would be programmed to obey god.

" think it was a Muslim who told me this."

probably so...

"(it can all get very confusing)"

Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding
proverbs 4:7 applies wether you beleive the bible or in a creator or not..

"I just cannot understand why He would create such a system."

for his glory... law and order is the best system with creatures who have the option to choose to obey you or disobey you. what would it be like in the world, if noone was convicted guilty of any crime/wrongdoing and there were no consequences, or punishment. there would be alot more killings, robberies etc... god is just.

"And why did God allow that by the simple mistake of Adam and Eve, all of mankind should suffer?"

when man and woman broke the law given by god before sinning, they were convicted guilty. being guilty deserves condemnation. the condemnation god said before any law was transgressed, was death. changing and affecting the whole body, bloodstream and world.. we received, as the offspring of non eternal, dieing beings, the curse through adam and eve's blood, wich was cursed when they reproduced. they reproduced cursed dna... we all still willingly choose to sin most the time, making us guilty and worthy of condemnation. this is how each one of us becomes guilty, not because of something you diddnt do, but something you are by choice guilty of.

"So why is the punishment so severe when humans are so ignorant of knowledge"

are you ignorant of right and wrong? common sense? loving and respecting people? ... morals?

"Why should God expect every person to be able to know what is truth?"

wouldn't you seek until you found it?... if you seek, he said he will answer you. lots of people "look" but do not steadfastly seek... but non christian logic: if you cared enough you would find it. ex: if you think your wife is cheating on you, in search of the truth you will find out yes or no.

"The rest of us do not have this knowledge of God"
you would if you cared, or seriously considered the possibility and ^^^^^....



we are going to be dead alot longer than we will be alive...

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

wouldn't you seek until you found it?... if you seek, he said he will answer you. lots of people "look" but do not steadfastly seek... but non christian logic: if you cared enough you would find it. ex: if you think your wife is cheating on you, in search of the truth you will find out yes or no.

"The rest of us do not have this knowledge of God"
you would if you cared, or seriously considered the possibility and ^^^^^....

so if through steadfast searching we came to the conclusion that god and the bible were either not true or simply not something we could, in good conscience, follow. what then?

we are going to be dead alot longer than we will be alive...

i guess we can agree on that.

 

[crocusj]

Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding proverbs 4:7 applies wether you beleive the bible or in a creator or not..

Correct me if I'm wrong (with my Bible reading!) but was Eve not specifically looking for wisdom when she ate the fruit?

for his glory... law and order is the best system with creatures who have the option to choose to obey you or disobey you. what would it be like in the world, if noone was convicted guilty of any crime/wrongdoing and there were no consequences, or punishment. there would be alot more killings, robberies etc... god is just.

Was it Adam and not Eve who God forbade from eating the fruit? Surely the mitigating circumstances of ignorance and the fact that God had quite clearly not equipped Eve to cope with the deviousness of the serpent (do you have free will when when you know nothing of deceit?) should have allowed at least a show of mercy...you know, that trait we are continually told that God has an infinite supply of. Was God himself deviously testing them when he put the tree there in the first place? God certainly acted as judge and jury but "just" he was not.

when man and woman broke the law given by god before sinning, they were convicted guilty. being guilty deserves condemnation. the condemnation god said before any law was transgressed, was death. changing and affecting the whole body, bloodstream and world.. we received, as the offspring of non eternal, dieing beings, the curse through adam and eve's blood, wich was cursed when they reproduced. they reproduced cursed dna... we all still willingly choose to sin most the time, making us guilty and worthy of condemnation. this is how each one of us becomes guilty, not because of something you diddnt do, but something you are by choice guilty of.

This merely reiterates what God did, it does not answer the question of why the punishment far out ways the crime. Perhaps if He had been a bit more forgiving we might see him in a better light and follow Him more devoutly and therefore choose to sin less. Are my sins as great as Adam's...or Ted Bundy's? Will my condemnation be equal to theirs? That doesn't sound like justice to me

are you ignorant of right and wrong? common sense? loving and respecting people? ... morals?

Common sense? You're having a laugh surely, in what possible way could the actions of God in the garden of Eden be construed in any way as remotely resembling the application of common sense?!

wouldn't you seek until you found it?... if you seek, he said he will answer you. lots of people "look" but do not steadfastly seek... but non christian logic: if you cared enough you would find it. ex: if you think your wife is cheating on you, in search of the truth you will find out yes or no.

What does this mean? Are you saying that if you don't find God it's because you are not looking hard enough...bit convenient, no? I would be more likely to think if you find God it's because you needed to.

 

[search the scriptures]

so if through steadfast searching we came to the conclusion that god and the bible were either not true or simply not something we could, in good conscience, follow. what then?

how did you go about searching?

 

[search the scriptures]

"Correct me if I'm wrong (with my Bible reading!) but was Eve not specifically looking for wisdom when she ate the fruit?"

i was using proverbs 4:7 for this phrase : "(it can all get very confusing)" and not for describing what eve's motive was....

"Was it Adam and not Eve who God forbade from eating the fruit?"

that is why in the book of romans, by one mans sin = adam, death came upon all
and by one mans obidience = jesus, are they frogiven.

"(do you have free will when when you know nothing of deceit?)"
i guess so does a toddler willingly choose? most likely they are gullable and not aware of deceit
they beleive in santa clause...

"should have allowed at least a show of mercy...you know, that trait we are continually told that God has an infinite supply of."

that is why in the book of romans, by one mans sin = adam, death came upon all
and by one mans obidience = jesus, are they frogiven.

and most of all :
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

justice is given by the lawgiver through the judge.

" why the punishment far out ways the crime. Perhaps if He had been a bit more forgiving we might see him in a better light and follow Him more devoutly and therefore choose to sin less."

he by law does not have to show mercy or give forgiveness......... he does deal out forgivness- by truly trusting and beleiving the lord jesus christ.. you do not have to do anything else or work to keep it. grace is unmerited favor or undeserved favor... dont complain

" in what possible way could the actions of God in the garden of Eden be construed in any way as remotely resembling the application of common sense?!"
in the quoted statement i was not talking about the garden of eden.

"What does this mean? Are you saying that if you don't find God it's because you are not looking hard enough...bit convenient, no? I would be more likely to think if you find God it's because you needed to."

would it change your life to truly find God ? especially my God?

if i am wrong and there is no god, o well..... if you are wrong and there is a god, o hell.... seek

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

how did you go about searching?

first through scripture, prayer, meditation. eventually through self reflection, consulting multiple sources and rationality.

 

[crocusj]

"
would it change your life to truly find God ? especially my God?

if i am wrong and there is no god, o well..... if you are wrong and there is a god, o hell.... seek

I'm afraid I'm not looking for a god. Don't need one, no evidence for one, no reason for one to exist. And as for Pascal's Wager, well that would be a lie wouldn't it, at least to oneself.

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

I'm afraid I'm not looking for a god. Don't need one, no evidence for one, no reason for one to exist. And as for Pascal's Wager, well that would be a lie wouldn't it, at least to oneself.

Search the Scriptures also forgets the...."What if we're both wrong and (insert angry, jealous deity or deities here) exists. Pascal's Wager=false dilemma.

Edit: He also forgets the what if all religious people are wrong and have been harming other human beings or a fiction angle. There not being any Gods does not equate to no harm done.

 

[search the scriptures]

"Edit: He also forgets the what if all religious people are wrong and have been harming other human beings or a fiction angle. There not being any Gods does not equate to no harm done."

i wont take the blame for it.... it has always influenced mankind (religion) and did not start with me.... if you are right it still wouldn't matter ...

if my god is true than you would really be deceived, and not even know it, and his truth really would not be understood by you....

 

[search the scriptures]

" I'm afraid I'm not looking for a god. Don't need one, no evidence for one, no reason for one to exist. And as for Pascal's Wager, well that would be a lie wouldn't it, at least to oneself."

understandable

 

[ninerbuff]

God is the source of all good things, but since the Fall of Eden we have had Satan in our lives. Just as he slyly obtained Adam & Eve's consent to destroy their lives, he does the same with all of us today.

So satan is responsible for deformed babies and genetic defects?

 

[ninerbuff]

Why should God be blamed? According to the bible, when He created everything, “it was very good” (Genesis 1:31). Man is the one who bungled everything up. Additionally, James 1:17 says, “Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights.” So, the bad things in this world are not God's fault at all, because he only created the good.

Man bungled it so bad, that god had to flood the Earth, kill everything that wasn't on the boat and start over with a "good" man again. But somehow that got bungled again and then he had to send his "son" to fix it again. Are we going for 3 times a charm?

 

[search the scriptures]

"Man bungled it so bad, that god had to flood the Earth, kill everything that wasn't on the boat and start over with a "good" man again. But somehow that got bungled again and then he had to send his "son" to fix it again. Are we going for 3 times a charm?"

"Man bungled it so bad, that god had to flood the Earth, kill everything that wasn't on the boat and start over "

man messed up, judgment came, as well as condemnation... noah and family were on the boat

" with a "good" man again."

wrong noah had the curse and was not perfect/good .. through his father by birth, and passed it on to his children..
they were on the boat with the same blood still sinners... noah was not recreated noah was saved because of God's grace ... he beleived God and built the ark. God had mercy on noah and his family.

 

[search the scriptures]

"then he had to send his "son" to fix it again."

God never had to do anything in the first place, he sent his son in love through grace and mercy

 

[search the scriptures]

"So satan is responsible for deformed babies and genetic defects?"

breaking of the law is responsible for the curse....

satan did deceive eve, but adam still knew of the law and willingly sinned...

 

[ninerbuff]

"Man bungled it so bad, that god had to flood the Earth, kill everything that wasn't on the boat and start over with a "good" man again. But somehow that got bungled again and then he had to send his "son" to fix it again. Are we going for 3 times a charm?"

"Man bungled it so bad, that god had to flood the Earth, kill everything that wasn't on the boat and start over "

man messed up, judgment came, as well as condemnation... noah and family were on the boat

" with a "good" man again."

wrong noah had the curse and was not perfect/good .. through his father by birth, and passed it on to his children..
they were on the boat with the same blood still sinners... noah was not recreated noah was saved because of God's grace ... he beleived God and built the ark. God had mercy on noah and his family.

So god knowingly chose a "cursed" man to resolve the issue with sin, have this guy and his family repopulate the Earth, only to have it get mucked up again? This story is getting better and better. So god is incapable of deciding if he wants perfection or not?

 

[ninerbuff]

"then he had to send his "son" to fix it again."

God never had to do anything in the first place, he sent his son in love through grace and mercy

Apparently he made the wrong choice in picking a "cursed" guy to repopulate the Earth. After mucking that up he sent his "son" to clean up the mess.

 

[ninerbuff]

"So satan is responsible for deformed babies and genetic defects?"

breaking of the law is responsible for the curse....

satan did deceive eve, but adam still knew of the law and willingly sinned...

So only certain people are cursed? Others aren't? How does god chose who gets the deformed baby?

 

[search the scriptures]

"So only certain people are cursed? Others aren't?"

all humans are cursed.... others are dealt mercy through grace and love.

"How does god chose who gets the deformed baby?"

don't know, not in the bible and pure assumption (if i would try to answer what is undisclosed that is)..

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

"Edit: He also forgets the what if all religious people are wrong and have been harming other human beings or a fiction angle. There not being any Gods does not equate to no harm done."

i wont take the blame for it.... it has always influenced mankind (religion) and did not start with me.... if you are right it still wouldn't matter ...

if my god is true than you would really be deceived, and not even know it, and his truth really would not be understood by you....

Ah, the I'm in the special club and you're not neener neener defense. Argumentative comfort food at it's finest.