Prayer: Supernatural or Psychological

[1137]

I have no problem saying that God exists in the human mind. However, that is completely different than any kind of God actually existing. I want to use prayer as an example to start. Prayer works completely free of any divine intervention, it is psychological, the power of the mind. Let us say that a religious believe is in the hospital. This person strongly believes in a loving and caring God who is watching out for them and interacts in their lives. Meanwhile, they have a huge congregation of people who believe the same, they all believe that there is a caring God and asking Him to help works. So, we have a person who starts getting better when he is well aware he is being prayed for. Is there anything supernatural about this? No. What is happening is simply the power of belief and of the mind helps him heal himself.

We can further show this. Praying for someone with pneumonia can help greatly, many religious people have seen prayer work and accept it as divine intervention. Why then, do no true miracles ever happen? If a person survives pneumonia with the help of prayer, that may be accepted as divine intervention. However, if the same person loses an arm, no matter how hard you pray it will not grow back. It seems evident that no great feats can be accomplished through acts such as prayer, as there is nothing involved but the human mind. It is completely natural for a person to recover from pneumonia, and positive thinking alone is proven to work. It is not natural for limbs to grow back.

So what is it? Is prayer the power of the mind, or are religious folks simply not praying for anything that the mind and modern medicine cannot fix? Another example can be starvation. It is not the fault of man that people are starving all around the world, and even if you could argue that it is, God should have the ability to feed them and not punish them for the evil nature of others. Yet, the hungry stay hungry. So, why are the religious not praying for them? Well, they are, but the power of the mind cannot feed entire countries.

What it comes down to is either that God is simply in the mind, or he has very screwed up priorities. I mean, if God will get rid of your flu but not help feed the hungry, is that really an entity worth honoring?

 

[InfidelRiot]

Prayer has been proven to not work. Prayer, in essence, is a mind mentality whereby one's answer depends mostly upon the human interpretation. If an individual prays to find the love of his life, and finds her, it is god's will. If an individual prays that relative will find god, but does not, it was merely a test of the prayer's faith.

The major problem is that a religious individual will always concoct a reason for why something did not happen despite prayer and faith, yet find every reason to blame someone else for not having enough faith.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Oh, hey god. Been looking for you.

 

[Madhuri]

What it comes down to is either that God is simply in the mind, or he has very screwed up priorities. I mean, if God will get rid of your flu but not help feed the hungry, is that really an entity worth honoring?

Why should or would God do whatever we ask him to? If prayer for personal gain worked, the world would implode. People's prayers would contradict each other and some prayers would be harmful. And even if there was a way to resolve that, the fulfilment of prayers would make the world a complete utopia. It would actually be Heaven. But this world is not heaven because it isnt meant to be. The laws of nature clearly dictate that part of life is death and all the suffering that comes with the processes that lead to death.

Fulfilling prayer indiscriminately (if at all) would contradict the purpose of the world.

I personally do believe that prayer can have an affect. But not because God does anything. I'm one of those people who believes in the mystical, including the power of mind and consciousness.

 

[1137]

Studies have shown that people who know they are being prayed for and believe it can recover quicker. Of course prayer doesn't work, but belief does.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I pray every night to myself, answer it myself, and I ignore the gods above all as if I want something done right, I do it myself.

It's more of a ritual though, not the mind being a god

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Studies have shown that people who know they are being prayed for and believe it can recover quicker. Of course prayer doesn't work, but belief does.

Yes, prayer is placebo

 

[1137]

Why should or would God do whatever we ask him to? If prayer for personal gain worked, the world would implode. People's prayers would contradict each other and some prayers would be harmful. And even if there was a way to resolve that, the fulfilment of prayers would make the world a complete utopia. It would actually be Heaven. But this world is not heaven because it isnt meant to be. The laws of nature clearly dictate that part of life is death and all the suffering that comes with the processes that lead to death.

Fulfilling prayer indiscriminately (if at all) would contradict the purpose of the world.

So feeding the starving would have negative effects on the world? If we pray for god to stop letting people suffer horrific realities such as rape and slaughter, his answering would be completely unfair? Sure if God answered all prayers it would be bad, but you missed the point. The small things like "make those shoes go on sale" get answered, but the things like "stop letting children die of flesh eating diseases" is overlooked.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

So feeding the starving would have negative effects on the world?

It certainly would end the whole point of independence and the concept morality of "earning" that we were all taught as children.

 

[Madhuri]

So feeding the starving would have negative effects on the world? If we pray for god to stop letting people suffer horrific realities such as rape and slaughter, his answering would be completely unfair? Sure if God answered all prayers it would be bad, but you missed the point. The small things like "make those shoes go on sale" get answered, but the things like "stop letting children die of flesh eating diseases" is overlooked.

My point is that nothing gets answered. Nothing that happens to us is because God interferes. I don't believe that God interferes with these things. He observes.
Alleviating suffering would contradict the role of nature. And I believe that nature is the way it was intended to be.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

It certainly would end the whole point of independence and the concept morality of "earning" that we were all taught as children.

The problems would be Malthusian, and are not unavoidable. The ethic of "independence" is irrelevant in these places which are generally communal by tradition. They are not destituted by a lack of endeavor. What a shallow grasp.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The problems would be Malthusian, and are not unavoidable. The ethic of "independence" is irrelevant in these places which are generally communal by tradition. They are not destituted by a lack of endeavor. What a shallow grasp.

Sure they aren't now, but earlier on their ancestors had to have been.
\

Edit let's not hijack this thread

 

[1137]

My point is that nothing gets answered. Nothing that happens to us is because God interferes. I don't believe that God interferes with these things. He observes.
Alleviating suffering would contradict the role of nature. And I believe that nature is the way it was intended to be.

Ah, I think I misunderstood. I have no issues with this line of thought in relation to my example of prayer. I also agree that if something exists it isn't answering anything. However, many religious people strongly believe God is involved amd answers prayers, and I don't see how that makes sense. Either your belief here is the answer, or mine is. But a deity answering prayers doesn't seem to work.

I wish I could change the thread title to something less misleading and more related to prayer specifically . Oh well haha

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Could it be that you are mistaking placebo as God?

 

[InfidelRiot]

Could it be that you are mistaking placebo as God?

Most likely.

 

[Madhuri]

I wish I could change the thread title to something less misleading and more related to prayer specifically . Oh well haha

What would you like the title to read?

 

[1137]

What would you like the title to read?

Uhhhh, "Prayer: Supernatural or Psychological"

 

[Pegg]

Why should or would God do whatever we ask him to? If prayer for personal gain worked, the world would implode. People's prayers would contradict each other and some prayers would be harmful.

hey i like that thought, very good point.

 

[George-ananda]

Prayer works completely free of any divine intervention, it is psychological, the power of the mind.

You do realize you're just stating your own opinion here. And this is the starting point of your whole argument.

Meanwhile, they have a huge congregation of people who believe the same, they all believe that there is a caring God and asking Him to help works. So, we have a person who starts getting better when he is well aware he is being prayed for. Is there anything supernatural about this? No. What is happening is simply the power of belief and of the mind helps him heal himself.

Why aren't you considering the possibility that it could be the power of the mind/ could be assistance from spiritual realms/ could be the interaction of both these
things. Your argument just starts and ends with the conclusion you want to draw without providing evidence why you take that position.

Why then, do no true miracles ever happen?

wait a sec. Again, just your opinion. I believe they do happen. Have you ever read some of the more challenging to explain-away alleged miracles. I think if you look,
without starting with the conclusion, that sometimes we honestly have to say 'we just don't know'. You seem too eager to have a cut-and-dry worldview in this complex
universe.

Your question: Prayer: Supernatural or Psychological ......why does it have to be an 'or' question. Sometimes it can be one, sometimes it can be the other.

 

[George-ananda]

Prayer has been proven to not work. .

Challenge! I've had people who do believe in God and prayer tell me it has been proven to work. I've also heard people who don't believe in God and prayer claim it's been proven not to work. It seems on so many things nowadays everyone can find some research or study to show whatever they want to believe.