Prayer: Supernatural or Psychological

[Mr. Skittles]

Prayer has been proven to not work. Prayer, in essence, is a mind mentality whereby one's answer depends mostly upon the human interpretation. If an individual prays to find the love of his life, and finds her, it is god's will. If an individual prays that relative will find god, but does not, it was merely a test of the prayer's faith.

The major problem is that a religious individual will always concoct a reason for why something did not happen despite prayer and faith, yet find every reason to blame someone else for not having enough faith.

Wrong again.....

Use of Prayer among Persons with Cancer : Holistic Nursing Practice

and

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/11142453/reload=0;jsessionid=7EnKBRSGwcjn3eKbJo1a.0

 

[ChristineES]

Prayer is talking to God. I don't know why people believe it to be any more than that. It is neither supernatural or psychological-- just talking and meditating.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

Prayer is talking to God. I don't know why people believe it to be any more than that. It is neither supernatural or psychological-- just talking and meditating.

Well isn't a psychological phenomenon that the conscious mind becomes fixated by connecting with an incorporeal deity? With respect to the research I listed, it seems there is indeed a psychological effect from praying.

 

[Twig pentagram]

I don't know. IMHO; At the present time more evidence point to psychological,
but who's to say it isn't both.

 

[jasonwill2]

People dilute prayer so much these days...

Prayer is meditative chants, mantras, or invocations.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

People dilute prayer so much these days...

Prayer is meditative chants, mantras, or invocations.

Which involves some psychological influence. Have you taken any advance course in clinical psychology or psychopharmacology?

Ancient traditions have used psychedelics to enhance their experience with the spiritual world. Some in church gatherings while invoking the name of God are said to be suddenly influenced by the holy spirit which allows them to speak in a "divine language." These realities can be said to have a psychological effect on the person.

 

[jasonwill2]

Which involves some psychological influence. Have you taken any advance course in clinical psychology or psychopharmacology?

Ancient traditions have used psychedelics to enhance their experience with the spiritual world. Some in church gatherings while invoking the name of God are said to be suddenly influenced by the holy spirit which allows them to speak in a "divine language." These realities can be said to have a psychological effect on the person.

I'm aware of this I consciously and intentionally trick my brain in these ways for fun, as magick is generally fun.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

I'm aware of this I consciously and intentionally trick my brain in these ways for fun, as magick is generally fun.

Is it in the form of something call "weed?" If so, pass that over here :beach:

 

[jasonwill2]

Is it in the form of something call "weed?" If so, pass that over here :beach:

I think drugs are bad, I only take caffine.

It's mostly by double think and altered states of consciousness via meditation or gnosis, the placebo effect is in there too.

Eventually if you imagine it hard enough... it becomes real, at least as real as is necessary to interact with it... I was good at tactile sensations.

 

[Me Myself]

Prayer works in both ways.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

I think drugs are bad, I only take caffine.

It's mostly by double think and altered states of consciousness via meditation or gnosis, the placebo effect is in there too.

Eventually if you imagine it hard enough... it becomes real, at least as real as is necessary to interact with it... I was good at tactile sensations.

Caffine is good.....Until you have a heart attack but I commend you on being drug free. I was just joking in my last comment.

 

[KeeperofSecrets]

I have no problem saying that God exists in the human mind. However, that is completely different than any kind of God actually existing. I want to use prayer as an example to start. Prayer works completely free of any divine intervention, it is psychological, the power of the mind. Let us say that a religious believe is in the hospital. This person strongly believes in a loving and caring God who is watching out for them and interacts in their lives. Meanwhile, they have a huge congregation of people who believe the same, they all believe that there is a caring God and asking Him to help works. So, we have a person who starts getting better when he is well aware he is being prayed for. Is there anything supernatural about this? No. What is happening is simply the power of belief and of the mind helps him heal himself.

We can further show this. Praying for someone with pneumonia can help greatly, many religious people have seen prayer work and accept it as divine intervention. Why then, do no true miracles ever happen? If a person survives pneumonia with the help of prayer, that may be accepted as divine intervention. However, if the same person loses an arm, no matter how hard you pray it will not grow back. It seems evident that no great feats can be accomplished through acts such as prayer, as there is nothing involved but the human mind. It is completely natural for a person to recover from pneumonia, and positive thinking alone is proven to work. It is not natural for limbs to grow back.

So what is it? Is prayer the power of the mind, or are religious folks simply not praying for anything that the mind and modern medicine cannot fix? Another example can be starvation. It is not the fault of man that people are starving all around the world, and even if you could argue that it is, God should have the ability to feed them and not punish them for the evil nature of others. Yet, the hungry stay hungry. So, why are the religious not praying for them? Well, they are, but the power of the mind cannot feed entire countries.

What it comes down to is either that God is simply in the mind, or he has very screwed up priorities. I mean, if God will get rid of your flu but not help feed the hungry, is that really an entity worth honoring?

O.K. prayer to me is still an unknown. :beach: I prayed for miracles and well to me they were answered when chances were against in a major way, even record beating and this never happen before, "doctors quotes", to how in tarn nations did this happen and scratching our heads. But as you said, it could just be devine interventions. But when ever there is something I can pray about, its a impulsive thing, like grabbing the oh -**** handle before a wreck. Its a comfort thing. Something to go to when there is nothing else to go to. But there are things still unknown about our physical world, such as the humans six sense. In labs there are tests being conducted on how we read magnetic fields. One person in one room could by magnetic fields allow another person in a completly different room, share insightful experiences. My belief is we can not seperate ourselves from our god and environment , because we are apart of our creator. I think maybe their is a physical ability unaware of we possess in working what looks like magic into being.

 

[Twig pentagram]

Magickal.

 

[Storm]

Studies have shown that people who know they are being prayed for and believe it can recover quicker. Of course prayer doesn't work, but belief does.

Have they? I assume someone else asked to support this, so if you'll just point me that way, I'd appreciate it.

My views on the subject are a bit more complicated than the choices you present. I will say, though, that I view prayer for intervention as either inexcusably selfish (God, can I have a car?) or total shirking of our own moral duties (feed the hungry and give us world peace). Were I God, I wouldn't grant either form, myself.

 

[NIX]

Have they? I assume someone else asked to support this, so if you'll just point me that way, I'd appreciate it.

My views on the subject are a bit more complicated than the choices you present. I will say, though, that I view prayer for intervention as either inexcusably selfish (God, can I have a car?) or total shirking of our own moral duties (feed the hungry and give us world peace). Were I God, I wouldn't grant either form, myself.

Where I live in this world you can't work to take care of either yourself or anyone else without a car. Why would you put your own self above helping those in need and feeding the hungry if you had the ability and means to, just because you wore the label 'God'? I won't go on because your post struck a deep sense of saddness in me. I guess because this is the version of 'God' that so many people already put up on some 'God' pedistal. eh. This selfish version of 'God' does not impress or inspire me at all.

 

[NIX]

Where I live in this world you can't work to take care of either yourself or anyone else without a car. Why would you put your own self above helping those in need and feeding the hungry if you had the ability and means to, just because you wore the label 'God'? I won't go on because your post struck a deep sense of saddness in me. I guess because this is the version of 'God' that so many people already put up on some 'God' pedistal. eh. This selfish version of 'God' does not impress or inspire me at all.

Looks more to me like excuses people make for version of a 'loving' god that doesen't really exist. ie, 'god' doesn't do it, because we're supposed to. Not my kinda love.

 

[Storm]

Where I live in this world you can't work to take care of either yourself or anyone else without a car. Why would you put your own self above helping those in need and feeding the hungry if you had the ability and means to, just because you wore the label 'God'? I won't go on because your post struck a deep sense of saddness in me. I guess because this is the version of 'God' that so many people already put up on some 'God' pedistal. eh. This selfish version of 'God' does not impress or inspire me at all.

Gee, maybe because people who want to improve the world should get off their butts and try to do something themselves?

I love how you go straight to selfish.

 

[NIX]

Gee, maybe because people who want to improve the world should get off their butts and try to do something themselves?

I love how you go straight to selfish.

You went straight to selfish in the case of someone wanting a car. But I do not see this as a case of tit for tat. There are many many people who get off their butts every day, doing everything they possibly can, and yet still they need critical help. People are EXHAUSTED trying just to take care of themselves and their own. If they manage to make it through the day on their own (and possibly with the help of family), they have not a thing left over to help anyone else. Let's see the loving god get up off his/her butt and go do something him/herself to help.

As I said, this is no model of love that I can hold up, revere, or relate to.

 

[Storm]

You went straight to selfish in the case of someone wanting a car. But I do not see this as a case of tit for tat. There are many many people who gut off their butts every day, doing everything they possibly can, and yet still they need critical help. People are EXHAUSTED trying just to take care of themselves and their own. If they manage to make it through the day on their own (and possibly with the help of family), they have not a thing left over to help anyone else. Let's see the loving god get up off his/her butt and go do something him/herself to help.

As I said, this is no model of love that I can hold up, revere, or relate to.

Well, it would help if you asked me to elaborate on things you didn't understand before drawing conclusions, no?

I'm well aware of poverty issues, thank you. I'm also aware that God is not a vending machine, and should not be, and also (oh yeah) free will. Our economic systems are up to us.

 

[NIX]

My (imagined) idea of an 'all powerful' (all) loving god is a god who intervienes directly and powerfully, even handing out tokens to the almighty vending machines on weekends and other assorted special days. Like a loving parent would do for their child.

I'm not fond of the popular 'loving god' models of christianity and islam.

Storm, you (obviously) also are free to have your own (imagined) version of what a loving god would look like. It doesn't have to look like mine, and it doesn't have to look like anyone else's. If you don't see that a loving god would directly interviene and answer anyone's wish lists, I'm sure you have your own personally valid reasons for seeing it that way. If I have got you all wrong, simply correct me, you know? I certainly didn't mean to offend you. ???