Premarital Sex vs. Homosexuality

[Skwim]

Isn't that what we are all doing here? I can honestly say that NONE of us were present at the creation of our universe. NONE of us were present during the flood, NONE of us were alive to see Jesus, Muhammad, Abraham, Moses, etc.

Not when it comes to assertions of fact. Facts because they come from the Bible:
God didn't like the way his created beings were turning out. Because of this he killed them all except for one family. And because god is love, killing them all except for one family is a loving thing to do. Those who didn't survive this mass killing would likely take issue with such a notion.

You know, I make difficult decisions daily. Sometimes I think "why did I do that". I second myself from time to time. I sincerely believe that I am not capable of understanding the why's of everything God does, nor do I believe anyone else is capable.

Yet you obviously have no trouble choosing an illogical and contradictory god to worship. Personally, I'd be a bit more picky.

 

[jml03]

It is one thing to post an opinion you have based on nothingness, life without meaning, purpose, a greater sense of being part of something bigger than oneself; it is quite another to talk down to someone that chooses to devote their life to their Father, to live by the principles He chose for me, and to feel the love that is freely given by Him each and every day.

For me, I do not fit the cookie-cutter image of a religious follower. I choose to think for myself. Do I personally believe that some things in the bible may not be historically accurate? Perhaps. They were written by Man, and man is capable of error. However, they were given to man by God, so therefore a portion at least must be true. A man can possibly misconstrue something he saw in a vision or elsewhere and write it a little different than God may have wanted. But at the end of the day, the words are there. If God did not want them to be there, they wouldn't be.

I'm terribly sorry for you. I will pray for you.

 

[Skwim]

It is one thing to post an opinion you have based on nothingness, life without meaning, purpose, a greater sense of being part of something bigger than oneself; it is quite another to talk down to someone that chooses to devote their life to their Father, to live by the principles He chose for me, and to feel the love that is freely given by Him each and every day.

You mean like all the fundies, evangelists in particular, who constantly harangue none believers for wallowing in their sins and their selfish life styles, and for not accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Master? Believers who tell non-Christians how completely wrong they are and that they're headed straight to Hell if they don't get with the program? You mean that kind of talking down to? Or do you mean the kind of "talking down to" that simply tries to show where the Christian's logic has led them astray? That their claims, brought to a logical conclusion, aren't so logical at all?

For me, I do not fit the cookie-cutter image of a religious follower.

With some 38,000 Christian denominations floating around I doubt if there is any such cookie cutter.

I'm terribly sorry for you. I will pray for you.

Suit yourself.

 

[Autodidact]

The process that the Church must indicate is, homosexuals must repent for their sins (this is the same for all sins) in order to get back to God and get the help that they need to withstand the temptations that lead then to this unnatural behaviour sanctioned by God, sin is evil because it separates us from God and His assistance in developing virtues one of them is self-control.
God does not demand that they change and become straight what He demand is that they control this unnatural behaviour. The loving kind God that I know is the one that desires that all be saved and gave us the manual (the Bible) to guide us to Him and conform us for a living in His kingdom.
1Cr 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
As a Christian I believe that the epistles are God inspired and the constitution of the Christian Church, I am sad that you think of God as evil, but what can we do it is your opinion and your message.

Reason #42 to avoid Christianity like the plague.

 

[Autodidact]

It depends what is meant by 'associate with'. Christians can certainly meet and socialise with homosexuals, and become friends, if homosexuals want that.

It depends. Are you one of them?

 

[Autodidact]

It depends what is meant by 'associate with'. Christians can certainly meet and socialise with homosexuals, and become friends, if homosexuals want that.

But what of the thousands of homosexual Christians?

 

[Autodidact]

You miss the point here, there are several kinds of love and expressing love in this way is specifically forbidden to Christian congregations. I [one].

Why do you keep repeating this lie? Nowhere in your Bible is lesbianism prohibited. Zip. Nada. Zilch. This is an out and out lie.

What does your religion say about unrepentant liars?

Or don't women matter in your world?

 

[McBell]

It is one thing to post an opinion you have based on nothingness, life without meaning, purpose, a greater sense of being part of something bigger than oneself; it is quite another to talk down to someone that chooses to devote their life to their Father, to live by the principles He chose for me, and to feel the love that is freely given by Him each and every day.

BUt it is ok to talk down to non-believers?
Your hypocrisy is disgusting.

For me, I do not fit the cookie-cutter image of a religious follower.

what "cookie cutter image" are you talking about?

I choose to think for myself.

So your hypocrisy is all your own?
Nice to know.

Do I personally believe that some things in the bible may not be historically accurate? Perhaps. They were written by Man, and man is capable of error. However, they were given to man by God, so therefore a portion at least must be true.

The very least, right?

A man can possibly misconstrue something he saw in a vision or elsewhere and write it a little different than God may have wanted. But at the end of the day, the words are there. If God did not want them to be there, they wouldn't be.

Interesting.
Does this apply to everything, or just what you want it to apply to?
I mean, the fact that so many babies die every year is because God wants them to die, right?

I'm terribly sorry for you. I will pray for you.

rotflmao

You go right ahead.
Whatever makes yourself feel more righteous....

 

[justbehappy]

The fact is that the Bible, pre-Moses, in Mosaic Law, and post-Moses, puts homosexuality into the category of sinful behavior. Nobody can change that. So homosexuals have to make a decision. Either the Bible deity is at fault; or their understanding of their practice is at fault. I fully realise how serious that decision is, but nobody can avoid its necessity. I suggest, though, that homosexuals, like almost everyone in the Western world, have a very shallow concept of what sin really is, and how serious its consequences, and the supposed churches of the West do not help, so solicitous are they of worldly approval. It is not as though God is telling people to give up eating, or anything else that gives life and health. Abstinence from sexual activity does no harm, and surely, it is a small price to pay for eternal life. As they say, you're dead a long time- and this life may seem to us like ten minutes in comparison.

You're continuing to ignore what I was trying to say. Sins have a certain feeling to them. You could even say that when you don't know if something is a sin or not, the feeling tells you that it is. Many homosexuals, myself included, do not get that feeling from our desires and actions (when I was Christian). And I have talked to people that used to believe it was a sin, and they say that it wasn't the same feeling - it was a feeling of being scared that God would be mad at them but not the same feeling as doing something wrong. Basically, a fear that the couldn't understand.

It depends on what is meant by 'believes in'. If it is an intellectual belief that Jesus died for one's sins, it's not enough. The Greek and Hebrew words for 'believe' also mean 'trust'- so one cannot divorce belief from trust when it comes to Christianity, though a major difference grew up in the centuries following Christ, when nominalism led to intellectual faith without personal trust. It also involves love- 'we love because he first loved us,' John wrote, and if the threat of eternal hell is not enough, the love of Jesus through the cross is sufficient. Personal trust and love is what Paul referred to when he wrote that some of the saints had been homosexuals, but were no longer so. There are reformed drunks, druggies, thieves, fornicators, and yes, homosexuals, and some of them are able to give up their practices immediately on conversion. Others need help, but complete change is possible in time, and persons with homosexual desires before conversion can have satisfying heterosexual marriages after conversion. The important thing, and a rather rare thing in the West, is genuine conversion, which involves taking sides with God against oneself- hating one's sins, and loving God in Christ enough to put them into the past.

Okay I understand the point you're trying to make, but saying that you need 'trust' would make very few people Christian. I know for a fact that not everyone follows the bible 100%. They pick and chose and they make different interpretations of different things. This is why we have so many denominations. Instead of guessing at what things are supposed to mean, a lot of people just trust in God. And Christian homosexuals DO trust in God - but God does lead most of them astray from homosexuality.

 

[justbehappy]

That first line, you know, I don't know about anyone else, but generally speaking, threats of torture usually don't go together very well with "love". Just saying.

That second part there, has it occurred to you that perhaps these folks were bi- and decided to marry a woman and pump out future tithers due to social pressure? I mean seriously, there is an entire category in the LGBT community in which people are attracted to both sexes. You know, bi-sexual, the B in LGBT?

And there are many! Many even that don't come out about it because they don't want to deal with the pressures from society, and they are content with being with the opposite gender.

 

[Smoke]

Reason #42 to avoid Christianity like the plague.

Considering how many reasons there are, that's pretty high on the list.

 

[justbehappy]

But He does, he inspired the scriptures: 2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable [people] twist to their own destruction, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures.

Speak for yourself. Unless you are gay, you cannot say that he does.

 

[justbehappy]

But, my speculation gives me a peace in my heart that I have never known.

I'm really not here to turn anyone away from Christianity, but I just want to point out that this is the reason most people are Christian. We want to feel like we have a true purpose to our lives, and we need reasons and answers, so we let ourselves believe things that don't logically make sense.
Also, I would like to say that gay people never have peace in THEIR hearts until they realize that their desires are not sinful. If being with God is so peaceful, then shouldn't following the right path be peaceful for your heart too?

 

[justbehappy]

It is one thing to post an opinion you have based on nothingness, life without meaning, purpose, a greater sense of being part of something bigger than oneself; it is quite another to talk down to someone that chooses to devote their life to their Father, to live by the principles He chose for me, and to feel the love that is freely given by Him each and every day.

I just want to say that just because someone is debating your religious beliefs, doesn't mean they are debating your morals. I would bet that a lot of non-Christians live by the exact same principles you do.

For me, I do not fit the cookie-cutter image of a religious follower. I choose to think for myself. Do I personally believe that some things in the bible may not be historically accurate? Perhaps. They were written by Man, and man is capable of error. However, they were given to man by God, so therefore a portion at least must be true. A man can possibly misconstrue something he saw in a vision or elsewhere and write it a little different than God may have wanted. But at the end of the day, the words are there. If God did not want them to be there, they wouldn't be.[/quote]

So is not true then that people that were strongly against homosexuality (like many people today) added that into the writings of the bible? And what if God didn't want things changed. What if God was okay with their being errors in the bible because he wants us to figure some things out on our own. Maybe he wants us to know that you can't make your own interpretations of all of the writings and to trust in him instead

 

[jml03]

BUt it is ok to talk down to non-believers?
Your hypocrisy is disgusting.


what "cookie cutter image" are you talking about?


So your hypocrisy is all your own?
Nice to know.


The very least, right?


Interesting.
Does this apply to everything, or just what you want it to apply to?
I mean, the fact that so many babies die every year is because God wants them to die, right?


rotflmao

You go right ahead.
Whatever makes yourself feel more righteous....

I am not talking down to you or anyone else, if you had read the entire convo that had taken place, perhaps you would see that and then again, perhaps not. The point I was trying to make in that instance and evidently in this one as well, was that you can stand up for your beliefs without stating them so harshly.

Do any of you have something, some better way to enlighten me with? I haven't heard. You have just stated how wicked and evil my faith is, without offering any sort of a better way of life.

What if you were in a town, and a group of people were rude and hurtful to you. Would you denounce the entire town for the acts of a few? I feel like you are somewhat prejudice to me and to my faith. I thought in our society we were moving past that, hmmmm, guess not.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Thank you, never thought of it like that. I have read that some Buddhist, Native American Indians, and others talk of a great flood in their history. You see, I have some trouble believing that all were lost, save Noah and family. For example, these completely different groups have some story about this. If all had perished, how would they have stories of it from their history? So many things that I can question, but my faith allows me to overlook some things. I guess, to me, I'm not meant to have ALL the answers yet.

BTW, thanks for the link!

Where did you hear of Buddhist flood myths? I've been practicing for 15 years and have yet to hear even one.

 

[Autodidact]

Do any of you have something, some better way to enlighten me with? I haven't heard. You have just stated how wicked and evil my faith is, without offering any sort of a better way of life.

I do, but it's challenging. It's a commitment to the truth, and to using evidence and logic, not feelings, to determine what is true. Are you up to the challenge?

What if you were in a town, and a group of people were rude and hurtful to you. Would you denounce the entire town for the acts of a few? I feel like you are somewhat prejudice to me and to my faith. I thought in our society we were moving past that, hmmmm, guess not.

No, I take Christians one at a time, as my Jewish mother taught me. I take you as prejudiced against gay people.

 

[it's_sam]

I thought in our society we were moving past that, hmmmm, guess not.

I think that would be the end result of world peace, or atleast the first step toward it.

 

[Nerthus]

Also, I would like to say that gay people never have peace in THEIR hearts until they realize that their desires are not sinful. If being with God is so peaceful, then shouldn't following the right path be peaceful for your heart too?

Absolutely. It can be very difficult for people who are gay to be at peace with themselves, especially when a bunch of people are telling them how much they are sinning.

If you are feeling peaceful with God and with yourself - then clearly there is nothing wrong!

 

[TEXASBULL]

1 cor (11:4) "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head."
(11:5-6)
"If the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn."

If a woman refuses to cover her head in church, then her her head must be shaved.



The way I see it, there are only 2 options for a woman praying in church, covered head or shaved head. Until the Christians protest and crack down on this PAULINE NEW TESTAMENT COMMANDMENT, they we should overlook the other " commands" as well. Don't you think?


I got my cordless shears from walmart and I am going down to the 1st baptist church on Sunday and the moment I see a girl start to pray, I am going to turn those clippers on and watch the church all look and I will say, " hey , its in the book".

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