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Present arguments for atheism

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
According to you Mozart, Hitler and Stalin's "souls" had "free will" and "chose" to do what they did. What do you think a hypothetical person without a "soul" would have chosen? Would he have a free will and be capable of choosing anything or would he just be a vegetable?

As mentioned about 12 times to you, it is a matter of opinion what the agency of the decision is. It means we just see the facts of decisions being made, but don't and can't see what it is that makes the decisions turn out the way they do.

You fail to comprehend not matter how many times it is explained to you, the the conclusion the soul does not exist, is just as valid as the conclusion it does exist, same as that the paiting is beautiful or ugly are equally valid opinions.

It's a matter of logic. The concept of choosing does not function when the agency of the decision is regarded as fact.
 
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ArtieE

Well-Known Member
As mentioned about 12 times to you, it is a matter of opinion what the agency of the decision is. It means we just see the facts of decisions being made, but don't and can't see what it is that makes the decisions turn out the way they do.

It's a matter of logic. The concept of choosing does not function when the agency of the decision is regarded as fact.
If your body and brain lost the connection with your "soul" would your body and brain have a "free will", would your body and brain have any ability to make "choices" or would you just be a vegetable?
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
Present your argument for atheism.

I am not atheist, but belief is only one's opinion, so why argue? Everyone's opinions are equally valid, since we don't know. Anyone whose opinion goes against current knowledge should be seen in a skeptical manner, however.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
If your body and brain lost the connection with your "soul" would your body and brain have a "free will", would your body and brain have any ability to make "choices" or would you just be a vegetable?

You fail to comprehend no matter how many times it is explained to you, the conclusion the soul does not exist, is just as valid as the conclusion it does exist, same as that the painting is beautiful or ugly are equally valid opinions.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
You fail to comprehend not matter how many times it is explained to you, the the conclusion the soul does not exist, is just as valid as the conclusion it does exist, same as that the paiting is beautiful or ugly are equally valid opinions.
And you fail to comprehend no matter how many times it is explained to you that the soul either exists or it doesn't so either the conclusion that it exists is wrong or the conclusion that it doesn't exist is wrong, while neither the conclusion that the painting is beautiful nor the conclusion that it is ugly is wrong but only subjective opinions. Now, answer the question: If your body and brain lost the connection with your "soul" would your body and brain have a "free will", would your body and brain have any ability to make "choices" or would you just be a vegetable?
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
And you fail to comprehend no matter how many times it is explained to you that the soul either exists or it doesn't so either the conclusion that it exists is wrong or the conclusion that it doesn't exist is wrong, while neither the conclusion that the painting is beautiful nor the conclusion that it is ugly is wrong but only subjective opinions. Now, answer the question: If your body and brain lost the connection with your "soul" would your body and brain have a "free will", would your body and brain have any ability to make "choices" or would you just be a vegetable?

It's nonsense you don't accept the logic in regards to the painting, because it is principally the same logic as in regards to the soul. You have previously stated that the conclusion beautiful is not reached by expression of emotion with free will, thus choosing. You've got no logic as to how subjectivity works, and the fact is that you, like all atheists, reject subjectivity.

That question you posed is not relevant to the logical construct I presented. There are no latches proposed connecting the soul to the body in this construct. The body and brain are simply organized in terms of making decisions. Just as we see there is an organization for how decisions are made in government, there is also organization in the body and brain. Basically the only thing this organization needs to be capable of doing is basically to turn out "left" or "right".
 

McBell

Unbound
It's what passes for your argument, I address your argument. You just say these words "sad" and such in order to manipulate discussion, you don't have the emotion.
More dictation from you.
Looks like the only reason you need anyone else to post in this thread is so you ccan hit the reply button.
I mean, it isn't as though you actually reply to what is written in the posts you hit reply to.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
More dictation from you.
Looks like the only reason you need anyone else to post in this thread is so you ccan hit the reply button.
I mean, it isn't as though you actually reply to what is written in the posts you hit reply to.

I replied to your garbage about being sad about me.
 

McBell

Unbound
I replied to your garbage about being sad about me.
By dictating to me my feelings.
Tus I do not even need to be in this thread for you to argue with.
You are doing a fine job arguing with yourself by presenting what you want my argument to be.
Basically you are using a debate tactic used by people who do not have a strong enough argument to stand on its own.
And that is just sad.
Sad that you are not convinced that that which you argue for is true.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
By dictating to me my feelings.
Tus I do not even need to be in this thread for you to argue with.
You are doing a fine job arguing with yourself by presenting what you want my argument to be.
Basically you are using a debate tactic used by people who do not have a strong enough argument to stand on its own.
And that is just sad.
Sad that you are not convinced that that which you argue for is true.

But who believes Mestemia feels this sadness?
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
You have previously stated that the conclusion beautiful is not reached by expression of emotion with free will, thus choosing.
LOL of course it isn't. Maybe you can "choose" to find a painting beautiful but when we normal people go to art galleries we don't say "I choose to find the paintings on this wall beautiful and the paintings on that wall ugly".
That question you posed is not relevant to the logical construct I presented. There are no latches proposed connecting the soul to the body in this construct. The body and brain are simply organized in terms of making decisions. Just as we see there is an organization for how decisions are made in government, there is also organization in the body and brain. Basically the only thing this organization needs to be capable of doing is basically to turn out "left" or "right".
You said in post 619 and I quote: "The soul is what chooses in the concept of free will." So I ask again: If your body and brain lost the connection with your "soul" your body and brain would be left without "free will" and the ability to "choose"?
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
LOL of course it isn't. Maybe you can "choose" to find a painting beautiful but when we normal people go to art galleries we don't say "I choose to find the paintings on this wall beautiful and the paintings on that wall ugly".You said in post 619 and I quote: "The soul is what chooses in the concept of free will." So I ask again: If your body and brain lost the connection with your "soul" your body and brain would be left without "free will" and the ability to "choose"?

You have simply forgotten again, that the logic just as well establishes the opinion that the soul is not real.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
You have simply forgotten again, that the logic just as well establishes the opinion that the soul is not real.
You said in post 619 and I quote: "The soul is what chooses in the concept of free will. All of these uses you refer to, refer to the soul choosing. And then usually the soul is judged, meaning you as the owner of your choices is judged by God. It all makes perfect sense." So if "The soul is what chooses in the concept of free will" would your body and brain without your "soul" also be without "free will" and the ability to make "choices"?
 

gotham_girl

New Member
My argument is that so far, there's absolutely no evidence, and consequently no need of a supernatural being such as God in the Universe. Many people claim that they have seen or heard God, or felt his presence. I've personally never felt a "sign" or some such thing in my life, so I can't believe these claims.

That being said, I can see how religion and the idea of God might seem attractive to some. I've seen my own mother turn to religion after the death of her parents. At first, she was seeking closure and solace, but now she can't function without religion. For any kind of advice, she turns to her religious texts. She is ready to believe anything they tell her. I've seen this happen to many of her religious friends and some of my relatives. This is why I especially dislike religion - it tells you fairy tales that distance you from reality. I think it stops people from fully living their life, without guilt, without fear of judgment.

So I think that from the information we have at present, atheism is the only rational choice. History shows that time and again, religion has done more harm than good. I don't think we can afford to overlook that now and pander to religion just so we won't offend some people. Not when we have science to explain or at least attempt to explain all the things religion never could.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
You said in post 619 and I quote: "The soul is what chooses in the concept of free will. All of these uses you refer to, refer to the soul choosing. And then usually the soul is judged, meaning you as the owner of your choices is judged by God. It all makes perfect sense." So if "The soul is what chooses in the concept of free will" would your body and brain without your "soul" also be without "free will" and the ability to make "choices"?

And I also said about 14 times to you that agency is a matter of opinion. That the existence of the soul is a matter of faith and revelation. It means the conclusion the soul does not exist is just as valid. Then there is nothing doing the job of choosing.

And expressing feelings of emptiness in regards to the agency of decisions is common enough.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
And I also said about 14 times to you that agency is a matter of opinion. That the existence of the soul is a matter of faith and revelation. It means the conclusion the soul does not exist is just as valid. Then there is nothing doing the job of choosing.
So do animals also have a "soul"? They clearly also "choose". Will they be judged by your god?
 
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